Will County Planning and Zoning Commission met Sept. 20.
Here are the minutes provided by the Here are the minutes provided by the commission:
I. CALL TO ORDER
Vice Chairman John Kiefner called the meeting to order at 6:30 PM
| Attendee Name | Title | Status | Arrived |
| Michael Carruthers | Commissioner | Present | |
| Kimberly Mitchell | Commissioner | Present | |
| Hugh Stipan | Chairman | Absent | |
| John Kiefner | Vice Chairman | Present | |
| Roger Bettenhausen | Commissioner | Present | |
| Matthew Gugala | Commissioner | Absent |
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Vice Chairman John Kiefner led the Pledge of Allegiance.
III. ROLL CALL AND DECLARATION OF QUORUM
A quorum was declared.
Land Use Staff present Marguerite Kenny, Adrian Diaz, Dawn Tomczak and Susan McDavid.
Chris White present from The State's Attorney Office.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 6, 2022 MINUTES
MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES FROM THE SEPTEMBER 6, 2022 MEETING
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned to Approve the Minutes from the September 6, 2022 meeting, by Voice Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner SECONDER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
1. WILL COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOTICE OF VARIANCE AMENDING THE WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS ZONING ORDINANCE Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as amended, for Case ZC-22-034, John & Wendy Smith , Owner of Record, requesting (V-22-036) Variance for minimum street setback from 100 feet to 60 feet, for PIN # 08-25-23-400-022-0000, in Wesley Township, commonly known as 17898 Thornton Rd, Wilmington, IL .
Marguerite Kenny was scheduled to present Staff Report.
Case was Postponed due to notification, abutting property owners were not notified. Postponed to the October 4, 2022, meeting.
MOTION TO POSTPONE
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned to Postpone until October 4, 2022 meeting, by Voice Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner SECONDER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
2. WILL COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOTICE OF VARIANCE AMENDING THE WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS ZONING ORDINANCE Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as amended, for Case ZC-22-041, Formato Properties LLC, Owner of Record, (Jennifer Formato, 100% interest) and Thomas Osterberger of KGG LLC , Attorney, requesting (V-22-046) Variance for fence height within a street setback from 4 feet to 8 feet, (V-22-071) Variance for minimum street setback from 30 feet to 16.40 feet and (V-22-072)
Variance for minimum side yard setback from 10 feet to 7.58 feet (northeasterly side), for PIN #'s 16-05-07-101-018-0000, 16-05-07-101-020-0000, 16-05-07-101-006-0000 (to be consolidated), in Homer Township, commonly known as 14409, 14401, 14403 S. Archer Ave., Lockport, IL 60441
Marguerite Kenny presented Staff Report.
This Zoning ZC-22-041 needs to be Tabled to October 4, 2022 meeting. The applicants are not here, and we do not have verification that abutting was sent.
MOTION TO AMMEND THE AGENDA, TO POSTPONE CASE ZC-22-041, (V-22-046) (V-22-071) (V-22-072) TO THE END OF THE MEETING
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned to Postpone until October 4, 2022 meeting, by Voice Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner SECONDER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
3. WILL COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOTICE OF VARIANCE AMENDING THE WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS ZONING ORDINANCE Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as amended, for Case ZC-22-055, Mark W. Ipema, Owner of Record, requesting (V-22-070) Variance for minimum side yard (north side) setback from 50 feet to 9.45 feet, for PIN # 20-21-35-400-005-0000, in Will Township, commonly known as 32302 S. Kedzie Avenue, Grant Park, IL
ZC-22-055
Adrian Diaz presented the Staff report.
Variance for minimum side yard setback (north side) from 50 feet to 9.45 feet.
To bring a pole barn built without a permit into conformance.
The property is in Will Township and is approximately 5.01 acres with 164.57 feet of frontage along South Kedzie Avenue. Per the standards outlined in the Zoning Ordinance for A-1 zoned lots, the parcel is deficient in both lot area and lot frontage. However, the parcel is nonconforming because it was created on November 4, 1971. At the time of its creation, the Zoning Ordinance required that agricultural lots be at least one acre and lot width was not regulated.
The current property owners acquired the property in 1986 (R86-53191). The property is improved with a single-family home and a pole barn. The pole barn is no closer than 9.45 feet away from the north side lot line. A review of historic aerial photography suggests that the pole barn has existed on the property, in its current location, since 1974 and was expanded first in 2010, and again in 2015 without building permits. The addition continues the building line to the rear and only encroaches a few inches more into the side setback At the time of the pole building’s construction, the Zoning Ordinance did not regulate side yard setbacks in agricultural properties. Upon the adoption of the 1978 Zoning Ordinance, the building became a non-conforming structure. Per the Zoning Ordinance, Nonconforming structures can be maintained but cannot be expanded. The addition added to the rear of the pole building is an illegal addition built, without a building permit, and the structure is no longer a nonconforming structure.
The property is in active violation for 22LU00085 for building without a permit. In 2022, the applicants applied for an after the fact building permit 2200458, an agricultural exempt building permit. Because the property is over five acres the structure would qualify as an ag-exempt permit.
Staff finds that the hardship was created by the current owners. Although the pole building has existed since 1974 and was built by previous owners, the pole building was considered non-conforming. The applicants created the hardship by adding an illegal addition to their nonconforming structure. Had the applicants applied for a building permit before constructing the additions, they would have been notified about their pole building's status as a nonconforming structure and lot and building standards for an A-1 property. The applicants only applied for a building permit after they were placed in violation for building without a permit.
The building will need to pass a final building and electrical inspection. Staff is recommending approval of the Variance for side yard (north side) setback from 50 feet to 9.45 feet.
Michael Carruthers: The fine that was imposed was it paid?
Adrian Diaz: The Variance fee is charged at (1.5) One and a half times and that was paid. Weather an active fine on the property in terms of violation I can not answer.
Michael Carruther's: Thank you.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Are there anybody who would like to speak for or against this case?
No Response.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Is the property owner here?
Mark W. Ipema, property owner: Hand raises in the gallery.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Staff is recommending approval you are welcome to come down and speak.
Mark W. Ipema: I don't have to.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Ok.
MOTION FOR VARIANCE FOR MINIMUM SIDE YARD (NORTH SIDE) SETBACK FROM 50 FEET TO 9.45 FEET
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned for variance for minimum side yard (North Side) setback from 50 feet to 9.45 feet, Approved, by Voice Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner SECONDER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
4. WILL COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOTICE OF VARIANCE AMENDING THE WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS ZONING ORDINANCE Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as amended, for Case ZC-22-060, Robert F. Stewart & Courtney J. Stewart , Owner of Record, requesting (V-22-074) Variance for minimum lot frontage from 300 feet to 220.66 feet, for PIN # 14-12- 23-300-026-0000, in Manhattan Township, commonly known as 13452 W. Bruns Road, Manhattan, IL
ZC-22-060
Adrian Diaz presented the Staff report.
Variance for minimum lot frontage from 300 feet to 220.66 feet.
To obtain a building permit for house.
The parcel is approximately 6.53 acres with 220.66 feet of lot frontage along West Bruns Road. The property is 1.21 miles away from the corporate boundaries of the Village of Manhattan.
Zoning case 3010-RM was a map amendment from A-1 to E-1 with a special use permit for a PUD. passed by the County Board in 1988. The subject parcel is "Lot 15" in the Prairie Creek Hill development and is the final undeveloped parcel. Per Zoning Case 4853-V, no plat of subdivision had ever been filed for the development, so there was never any recognition of the requested variances.
On December 5, 2000, the property at 13408 W Bruns Road was the subject of zoning case 4853-V for an identical request for a variance for lot frontage from 300 feet to 220.66 feet. Staff found that the variance request was needed because the PUD was never initiated because there was never a Plat of Subdivision recorded approving the lot frontages. Because the parcel is not within a platted subdivision, Staff determined that the applicant needs a variance for lot frontage since the lot is deficient in lot frontage for the E-1 district before any building permits can be issued for the lot. An easement was recorded in 1990 (R90044927), granting the parcels in the Prairie Creek Development access to Kankakee Road to its west through a private gravel driveway.
The applicants acquired the parcel on May 13, 2022 (R2022044214).
There is an active building permit (2200967) for new home construction. Buildings permits cannot be issued until the lot is brought into conformance with the Zoning Ordinance.
Staff found that the owner's plight is not due to unique circumstances. The parcels in the Prairie Creek Hill development were created deficient per the standards outlined in the Zoning Ordinance for E-1 zoned lots. As shown by zoning case, 4853-V, the property to the west (at 13408 W Bruns Road) was approved for an identical request for lot frontage in 2000 for similar reasons. Staff finds that the variance if granted, will not alter the essential character of the locality. The lot has existed in its current form since 1989, 34 years. All the parcels of the Prairie Creek Development maintain an identical width of 220.66 feet per Plat of Easement 90044927, and the applicant is only seeking to construct a residence on the property, similar to other lots in the development. Staff finds that the owner’s hardship is due to the physical surroundings, shape, or topographical conditions of the property. Because the PUD was never established and the variances for lot frontage were never granted. It is Staff’s professional opinion that the granting of this variance will not impair an adequate supply of air to adjacent properties, or substantially increase the danger of fire, or otherwise endanger the public safety, or substantially diminish or impair property values within the neighborhood. The property was created in 1989, and the applicants intend to construct a house similar to other houses in the Prairie Creek Hills development. Any building permit issued would require approval from Will County Health Department, the Manhattan Fire Protection District, and the Township Road Authority and must be in conformance with the adopted codes and ordinances of the County.
Staff recommends approval of the variance for minimum lot variance from 300 feet to 220.66 feet. I can take any questions.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: The applicant is here?
Robert F Stewart, property owner: Hand raises in gallery.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Anybody else who wants to speak for or against this Zoning case?
No response.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Speaking to property owner: Staff is recommending approval you are welcome to come down and speak.
Robert F Stewart: No thank you.
MOTION FOR VARIANCE FOR MINIMUM LOT FRONTAGE FROM 300 FEET TO 220.66 FEET
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned for variance for minimum lot frontage from 300 feet to 220.66 feet, Approved, by Voice Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner SECONDER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
ZC-22-026
Marguerite Kenny presented the Staff report.
Special Use Permit for on-premises dynamic display in agricultural and residential zoning districts.
Variance for minimum setback of a dynamic display sign face from a residential structure from 300 feet to 112 feet.
To obtain a sign permit for a dynamic display.
The subject property is located at the southeastern corner of S. River Road and W. Renwick Road. It is 2.0 acres (~87,120 square feet) and has 286.31 feet of lot frontage along
Renwick Road and 278.89 feet of lot frontage along S. River Road. It is zoned R-2, a residential zoning district and conforms to the minimum lot requirements.
The property is improved with a one-story frame commercial building used as a Fraternal Hall and Tavern by the American Legion, a permitted use in the R-2 district. There is also
a pavilion in the rear of the property used for concerts and a beer garden. As such the site contains approximately 97 parking spaces with seven (7) American Disabilities Act (ADA) complaint spaces.
The American Legion desires to have an electronic messaging sign on the premises to help inform the public about upcoming events. Currently the Legion uses a portable sign to inform the public about upcoming events and is seeking a more permanent sign. Any element of a sign or sign structure capable of displaying words, symbols, figures, images, or messages that can be electronically or mechanically changed by remote or automatic means. This also includes any display that incorporates rotating panels, LED lights manipulated through digital input, "digital ink" or any other method or technology that allows a sign to present a series of images, messages or displays is defined as a dynamic display sign and requires special use approval in agricultural and residential zoning districts.
Dynamic display signs require conformance with the regulations in section 155- 13.70,C&D of the Will County Zoning Ordinance.
In terms of agency comments there were no objections from the Road District, Health Department or from the township. There was an email received from a county Board member in this District that had concerns about. An adjoining landowner. There was an email received from a resident. Concerns of road setbacks, blind spots, accidents at this location. No turn lanes, (8) eight foot fence with screening-was brought fourth.
STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS
Denial of a special use permit for on-premises dynamic display in agricultural and residential zoning districts.
Should the Board wish to recommend approval, Staff recommends the following two (2) conditions:
1. Upon fourteen (14) days of written notice to the owner of record and/or operator at their last known address, Will County Land Use Department and Will County Sheriff’s Department employees are hereby granted the right of entry in and upon the premises for the purpose of inspecting the premises and uses thereon for compliance with the terms and conditions of this special use permit. 2. A photometric plan, signed and stamped by a licensed lighting professional, shall be submitted along with the building permit for the dynamic display sign conforming to the requirements of sections 155-14.110-D and 155-13.70-D-10 of the Will County Zoning Ordinance.
Denial of a variance for minimum setback of a dynamic display sign face from a residential structure from 300 feet to 112 feet.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Is Mr. Carrillo the Sign company here? Lino Carrillo: Yes.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: We have the applicant here. Is there anyone else here who will be speaking on this case? Any residence?
Hands go up in the gallery.
Lino Carrillo: I am Lino Carrillo. I am with Express Signs and Lighting Maintenance we are at 212 Amendodge Drive, Shorewood, Illinois 60404. I am glad to be here to talk about this. I just have a comment; I go to a lot of variance meetings I have never been to one here with Will County. The Staff does an incredible job putting stuff together I am very impressed. Now I disagree with some of the things that they found.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: I think you might find that on certain Zoning things; Staff has the ability to overrule the ordinance. I think in this case they cannot overrule, they have to deny automatically. Am I speaking out of order here?
Marguerite Kenny: In terms of the requirements if this were any other type of use our position would be the same. Despite it is the American Legion it is a worthy organization it just the sign merits.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: This way the neighborhood has a chance to speak.
Lino Carrillo: I understand totally. So, I not going to spend a lot of time talking about the sign other than to confirm what that what you say is what the sign is. It is a (6) six by (9) nine wide, (5) five by (8) high, total signage, the total height is (8) eight feet. We have gone back and for with several mockups. The one you saw had a burn. We are not going to put the burn on it. It will just be (8) eight feet from grade. The ID cabinet will be (3) three feet (1) one inch tall and the electronic message center would be (2) two foot (7) seven inches tall. Typically, we use geo que LED's to light the sign. The message center is self contained and lights itself. This one is a (15) fifteen foot (.85) eight five millimeter. It's got (40) forty line and (124) one hundred twenty-four rows of LED modules in it. That give you the matrix of what it would have. I clearly understand the concern everyone has about light. Having significant light that can change a neighborhood. So, I've done a couple of things and I would like to share some images with you. Unfortunately, I have an older camera and it doesn't take great pictures. But I brought some pictures of the ambient light, (handing out Photos, (1) one page, (3) three (2) photos on front (1) one photo on back) the is one on the back as well. I took theses at (4) four in the morning a couple days ago. I have enlarged pictures if you need them. That is the first thing, I wanted to make sure you understood there is quite a bit of ambient light at night. Both from the streetlights, the parking lot lights and then the actual lights on the building itself. It is not that it is very dark in that area. (Handed out Photo of intersection dimming chart at bottom left corner description at bottom of page) Second thing I want to share, a little study that I had Daktronics which is the company that makes DMC do in terms of the light emission. Because as you probably know the foot candles diminish significantly with angle and distance. If you look at the second page, I gave you. What you would see is that at (40) forty degrees off angle is (.06) point zero six-foot candles at a 100 Feet. So, it significantly diminishes with the angle, and you can see that the sign faces are going to be both east and west and not north where the property is that everyone is concerned about. That is the first thing. Second thing I want to make sure everyone understands is that technology is pretty sufficient in these days to allow use to control the light. These have photo sensors, and they actually begin to dim immediately with the light, as the light goes down, so that they maintain a (4) four percent of ambient light. That (4) four percent can actually be adjusted to (1) one percent of ambient light. I don't think it would need to be because of the angle and the distance to the locations, right. But it could be. Second thing is we can control the light for the sign because we can put a dimmer switch on the sign to be able to dim it if we need to. Thirdly, we can actually control the light at the sign with a timer that says at midnight it turns off. Or at whatever time it turns of whatever the regulations we need to follow we can follow. Last but not least the technology is such that we can abide by all of the rules that you have in place for Dynamic displays. We can also set a must not exceed a specific level at any time. Regardless of if it was totally dark or not. I am happy to entertain any questions about the sign that we would put up and I imagine you have some.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: You answered my first one. I was wondering if this was parallel to the road was it a one-way sign? Two-way facing east and west so technically the closest house across the street wouldn't even be in the angle of the light.
Marguerite Kenny: Most likely not, but the three others along Renwick would be.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Staff mentioned some things 5,000 Nits, I have never heard of that in light terms, one-foot candles. I am hoping the technology has changed at least some. I know twice I have driven by dynamic signs that absolutely went all white and blinded me or distracted me. So, I am assuming those are lights that probably would not have conformed to the code as she stated.
Lino Carrillo: There are many many dynamic sign makers. I as a company deal with what I call the Hertz and the Avis of the sign world. They are manufactured in the US, (1) one is in Illinois and (1) one is in South Dakota. They manufacture them there and they have a high degree of technology they don't do that. Other companies sell signs they are directly imported from China there is not as much control on them they don't necessarily dim. There are a couple examples on Jefferson.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: The County does have rules that would prevent this from happening. If I understand our regulations. Anybody else?
Marguerite Kenny: I do want to mention per the dynamic display regulations I mention it is 5,000 Nit that is during daylight hours. At sunset it is 250 Nits. Which is defined as candelas as per square meters.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Also, on that point does the County require dynamic signs to go off at a certain time or can they be on 24-7?
Marguerite Kenny: They can be on 24-7 as long as the images and the brightness conform to the requirements. We could condition the sign to be turned off, if the commission wishes to add a condition to have it go off at a certain hour.
Roger Bettenhausen: You mentioned possibility of a dimmer switch and a timer. Is that part of your plan or is that something that could be added.
Lino Carrillo: It could be added. At this point the client hasn't really entertained the idea of dimming the sign. Quite frankly, I don't think it is the sign itself that is the issue. I think it is the dynamic display and that dims itself based on the ambient light so we wouldn't need a dimmer switch for that. But if there was concern about the ID cabinet the thing that is always on it is not dynamic, that could be put on a timer.
Michael Carruthers: Mr. Chairman, Being an American Legion myself, Buffalo Post, the American Legions only stay open so long. Friday and Saturday is the longest. I guess in the evenings the time the bar close for the post is not late so it shouldn't have an effect on the neighborhood.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: So, your hope is that the sign would go off when the Legion closes. But there is nothing that says it has to. I assume these are not big electricity users. Being all LED.
Lino Carrillo: They do not use a lot of electricity. Maximum of 570 watts per face and that is it's just white. Totally white so it would likely use half of that.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Is there anybody else to speak on this case?
Concerned Citizen: Neighbor to the east. Concerned that the sign would run 24 hours, The light it creates, his property value, the location of the sign, why does it have to be a dynamic sign? Why would the sign stay lit for 24 hours if the legion isn't open 24 hours? Does not belong in a neighborhood. Feels that would change the neighborhood significantly. It would be better if the sign could be controlled as far as the hours it is still going to be out of place for a residential area.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: You live to the east of the Legion. Have you been bothered by their outdoor events at the pavilion or has noise been an issue.
Concerned Citizen: It has been in the past, in the last (2) two years it has been corrected. The more they have built on to the outdoor building in back. It is a heck of a lot better than it was (2) two years ago.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Then they have acted responsibly? Concerned Citizen: Yes, That is a positive.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Clarifying dimensions of the sign with Mr. Carillo.
Mr. Carillo: Clarifies that the sign is not flashing. Each image stays up for 10 seconds. The sign has more potential for messages distribution than a static sign.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Would anyone like to follow up testimony from the neighbor? Anyone from the Legion want to come down and speak if you want to address the neighbors’ concerns.
Brian Chevere: I am Brain Chevere, I live in Plainfield. I am Also a veteran a little over 20 years in the United States Marine Corp. Master Sergeant E-8 for those of you who may know something about the military. I came back, several deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, a lot of our Veterans that we have us myself and other young Veterans. We like to help our community we like to instill that friendly community feeling that we are here to help. Not to just have personnel come in and drink at the bar. We actually take care of our own community. What I mean by that is we host things like blood drives they come out and they give 75 free medical screenings to elderly personnel that may not have adequate health insurance. We also have bingo for community events, pig roasts we are a holiday function area where people can come in get dinner and participate in events like Christmas give always raffles things like that. We are a Polling place. We are also a disaster relief area; we have sent supplies to Kentucky during the tornados, Texas during all the floods and to Ukraine for recent events. We host other groups; Cub Scouts, The Daughters of the American Revolution, The Fraternal Order of Police, Plainfield schools, the International Bass Nation, The Plainfield anglers, The Legion Auxiliary, The Sons of the American Legion, The American Legion Riders; which also conduct Honor Guards. Funeral services to those Veterans who may not have families or families that have a Veteran that has passed away and are requesting it. With that this Legion has been part of the Plainfield area since 1919 and wet it gets under my skin that we have been trying since 2014 I believe was the first paperwork submitted, to try to get a sign. And there are business out here and they get signs left and right, but we are a Veteran organization that helps our community and we don't have a sign, Besides a small one we can only fit so many letters on. I find that kind of, I don't want to say disrespectful, but it hurts. Understanding the neighbor’s issue with the light. You are not directly across the street Correct?
Concerned Citizen: No, I am to the east. The first house, south side of the road.
Brian Chevere: We can adjust it to where it shouldn't be bothersome to you, and I hope you understand where we are coming from as a group of non-profit for Veterans to help Veterans and help the community as our four pillars stand. We do a whole lot for our community and Plainfield and Will County. I do hope this is approved for the American Legion. I really think this can benefit us as far as disaster relief or other stuff that may come up.
Michael Carruthers: The hours?
Brian Chevere: We are open on different times, different hours for different days. Friday, Saturday nights we are allowed to stay open till (2) two AM. I don't think we stay open to (2) two Am every Friday and Saturday, it slows down. If there is only (2) two or (3) three people in the bar, then the bar tender calls last call. Sometimes we close at (10) ten (11) eleven o'clock at night. We are still technically able to sell alcohol or to stay open until midnight. If a Veteran is out on the street and is homeless and comes in to stay warm, we will open up and set up cot to spend the night out of the inclement weather. We haven't done that in probable about a year or two.
Michael Carruthers: There were at one time (18) eighteen it had dwindled down to about (11) eleven or (12) twelve of them. Because of participation mostly because of older guys the young ones don't want to get involved. Somehow, we have to come to a happy medium with the neighbors.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: If this neighbor (3) three months after the sign went up came to you and said I think it's too bright or I don't think it should be on after (10) ten o'clock Monday - Friday because my kids are sleeping for school. Do you think the Legion would entertain the thought of turning it off.
Brian Chevere: Yes sir, turn it off, dim it way down. I would like for it just to be dimmed down. Maybe as the length of the ambient light might not affect him as much. We are here for the Community. So, if need be, we will turn it all the way off when we are closed then turn it back on when we are open.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: I bet you Mr. Carrillo can put a program put in that say at (10) ten PM it just went to a static Legion post. So, it didn't change colors and brightness. If the sign stayed static it wouldn't have flashing, it just barley changes the light color in someone's home at (11) eleven (12) twelve (1) one am.
Marguerite Kenny: I do want to make (2) two clarifications from Staff report. I noticed on page (4) four, 2nd bullet point, under Staff analysis that it referenced an incorrect section of the Zoning Ordinance. This property is residentially Zoned so it would have to meet the requirements of 155-13.40, which is the residential and agricultural district requirements. Mainly that just means the sign has to be (10) ten feet from the right of way. It can be closer to the back of the curb of a street. That same section was referenced on page (7) seven under the variance under point (1) one.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: So, you are saying it is (.4) point four instead of (13.5) thirteen point five.
Kimberly Mitchell: Have we heard from any other neighbors? Marguerite Kenny: No, we have not.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: I would think the neighbors across the street especially east would want to weigh in. If they were really concerned.
Kimberly Mitchell: That is what I was thinking.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Does the condition have to be made before the Motion or after.
Kimberly Mitchell: I think we should do the conditions before.
Chris White, State Attorney: I agree, because then you would have to change your Motion.
Kimberly Mitchell: I want to ask the neighbor if he has some conditions that would make him more susceptible to the sign.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Would you like to come back down the commissioner would like to ask you a question.
Kimberly Mitchell: So, looking at all the evidence that has been presented I am having a hard time seeing this sign causing a significant impact to your property. I am not saying their won't be. I am wondering where you are at now that the Veteran spoke. Are there conditions or certain things that might help you move toward the sign.
Concerned Citizen: Sure, I think if the sign was only on during business hours, that would be a huge thing. I think that would be a huge plus. I can't see at (2) two and (3) three in the morning. As soon as I walk out on my deck when the trees clear out, I will be actually looking right at the sign in my opinion. I think just having it on during regular business hours would be the solution.
Kimberly Mitchell: So if it is on until (2) two am on Saturday night. Concerned Citizen: Are they open until (2) two am?
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: He did state their liquor license allows them to be open till (2) two am on Friday and Saturday. He also stated they are rarely open that late.
Concerned Citizen: I would agree. Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Ok. You agree.
Concerned Citizen: I think if the sign was kept on, like you say, for normal business hours including Saturday night.
Kimberly Mitchell: Do you Feel like if you had an issue you could go to them. They seem to be willing to address your concerns if you have any once the sign is there.
Concerned Citizen: I do feel comfortable with that. I think it should be adjustable. It would be nice knowing that.
Concerned Citizen: It is programmable and adjustable.
Concerned Citizen: The brightness can be adjusted then. I think that would be a huge plus too.
Kimberly Mitchell: So, If we were to add a condition stating that business hours.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: That would appease you greatly.
Concerned Citizen: Sure. Yeah, the sign operated during normal business hours and there was a mechanism that could be adjusted in case it was too bright. I am surprised other neighbors did not come. They are only a (112) hundred and twelve feet away. I would have thought they would have come. To be honest with you, I didn't think I would be the only one here. Yes, operation during regular business hours and the possibility of being able to adjust the sign will make a huge difference.
Kimberly Mitchell: I appreciate that. I think what they do for your community is worth keeping them continuing.
Concerned Citizen: I am all for them having some type of sign. I think this will help dramatically.
Kimberly Mitchell: OK thank you. Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Anybody else have a question? No response.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: I put the Legion on the spot. If we attach a condition that the sign can only be on during business hours, would you be agreeable to that? Spur of the moment decision I guess.
Brian Chevere: I wouldn't have a problem with it. I just feel that there are people driving at all times of night. If we don't have our sign lit up to say, hey we are providing a blood drive. Maybe the person may not see it because it is off. Or we are providing help for a disaster coming up, whatever the case may be. I know the concerned citizen says if he comes out on his deck, at (2) two or (3) three in the morning that is when he can see it. Can you see any other signs from inside your house or is it only when you step out onto your front porch?
Concerned Citizen: It would be from my sun room and the front porch and anywhere in the front of my house. I can see the parking spaces where the sign is when the trees clear out. You know where your jeep is parked.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: All questions should come through me.
Brian Chevere: If the Commission put that on then the Legion would have to abide by it. That is what we are as Veterans. That's what we have to do.
Roger Bettenhausen: I think in addition to what Kim was alluding to, is to eliminate the business hours, we put a condition on that the sign be programmed to be able to dim. Dim at some point and time. Perhaps that would ease into regular business hours and then it dims for the remaining.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: I would vote against that because our code already requires that. It does. Am I correct Ms. Kenny? The code requires it.
Marguerite Kennny: Yes.
The Commission discusses what conditions need to be added. Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Any other questions for Brian. No response.
Brian Chevere: Thank you.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: Mr. Carrillo might want to add to this so that we really make sure we cover this well.
Lino Carrillo: I just want to make sure I understood. (2) two things; First of all, the technology is there to do everything that you have been talking about. Second thing is I am not clear I understand if you’re talking about turning the sign off completely or turning the display off completely and leaving the ID cabinet lit or dimmed or something like that.
There are different pieces to this.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: So, what you are saying is we can turn off the dynamic display but, the lower thing would still maybe say American Legion.
Lino Carrillo: Or make the dynamic display a very dim flag at (1) one am of midnight or whenever. Dimmer than the sign itself. There are a lot of different options.
Kimberly Mitchell: I think what we need to do is condition the hours and then you need to work with the concerned citizen on what is bothersome and what isn't. You may find out that you can leave the thing on 24-7 and be bothering him at all. My concern before we take a vote is he has some form of alleviation of this light if it turns out to be a problem in his home. I think the hours I think that is what he is asking for at this point and I think we can give him that. The rest of that can be handled within the future. Does everyone agree with that or sees the condition.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: I will take a Motion and we will discuss.
Rogers Bettenhausen: Add the (3) third condition, The Legion wants to obviously be good neighbors. We have one objector here he said he is surprised we don't have other objectors; you may have others coming to you. I think The Legion wants to be good neighbors and I think if there is an issue once the sign is up and people see that it is not bothersome at all. Or maybe it would be nice if it was dimmed after midnight or something like that. I think The Legion would be a good neighbor and comply with that.
Brian Chevere: Yes, we would Sir.
Roger Bettenhausen: I think we need to just proceed without conditions. Vice Chairman John Kiefner: I am thinking no conditions. Roger Bettenhausen: Yes, I am thinking no conditions. Kimberly Mitchell: I don't think I can go along with that.
The Commission discusses what conditions need to be added.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: We don't have a Motion and we are discussing this. To my point let's just say you have a Veteran couple drinks talks to some other guys he goes out in the parking lot. He is feeling terrible, and The Legion is closed, or he is the only one left. The radio said the other day (22) twenty-two Veterans a day commit suicide. I would hate for someone coming for help not to find the Legion because there was no light whatsoever. Someone who has never been there. There could be an instance where somebody needs to find that Legion at (4) four in the morning. I hope it never happens. So, I am opposed to Kimberley Mitchell's condition. We can throw it on there and the static sign can still stay on and will state that it is the American Legion Post. I would vote for doing that.
Roger Bettenhausen: I would like to proceed so they are able to put their sign up. If Kim wants to put a condition on. Then so be it.
Vice Chairman John Kiefner: So, I think we found a way to do it.
The Commission discusses size of the sign, what is static and what is dynamic.
MOTION TO ADD CONITION # 3, DYNAMIC DISPLAY CAN NOT BE ON OUTSIDE OF BUSINESS WORKING HOURS
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned to add #3/condition, dynamic display can not be on outside of business working hours. Approved, by Roll Call Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner SECONDER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
MOTION FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR ON PREMISE DYNAMIC DISPLAY IN AGRICULTURAL AND RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS W/3 CONDITIONS
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned to add #3/condition, should read; dynamic display can not be on outside of business working hours. Approved, by Roll Call Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner SECONDER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
MOTION FOR VARIANCE FOR MINIMUM SETBACK OF A DYNAMIC DISPLAY SIGN FACE FROM RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE FROM 300 FEET TO 122 FEET
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned for variance for minimum setback of a dynamic display sign face from residential structure from 300 feet to 122 feet., Approved by Roll Call Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner SECONDER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
VI. OTHER
VII. EXECUTIVE SESSION
VIII. ANNOUNCEMENTS
IX. ADJOURNMENT
Planning and Zoning Committee Motioned to Adjourn, by Voice Vote,
Passed unanimously, 4-0.
NOTE; NEXT MEETING WILL BE HELD ON OCTOBER 4, 2022
VISIT WWW.WILLCOUNTYLANDUSE.COM TO VIEW AGENDAS AND STAFF REPORTS
MOTION TO ADJOURN
Motion to Adjourn. Planning and Zoning Committee Approved, by Voice Vote, Passed unanimously, 4-0.
| RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner SECONDER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Kiefner, Bettenhausen ABSENT: Stipan, Gugala |
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