Will County Planning and Zoning Commission met Jan. 7.
Here is the agenda provided by the commission:
I. CALL TO ORDER
II. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
John Kiefner led the Pledge of Allegiance.
III. ROLL CALL AND DECLARATION OF QUORUM
Chairman Hugh Stipan called the meeting to order at 6:33 PM
| Attendee Name | Title | Status | Arrived |
| Thomas White | Vice Chairman | Present | |
| Michael Carruthers | Commissioner | Present | |
| Kimberly Mitchell | Commissioner | Present | |
| Hugh Stipan | Chairman | Present | |
| Barbara Peterson | Secretary | Present | |
| John Kiefner | Commissioner | Present | |
| Roger Bettenhausen | Commissioner | Present |
Land Use Staff present were Kris Mazon, Dawn Tomczak, Lisa Napoles, Marguerite Kenny, and Janine Farrell.
Chris Wise was present from the Will County State's Attorney's office.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
1. WC Planning and Zoning Commission - Public Hearing - Dec 3, 2019 6:30 PM
The motion carried unanimously. Minutes were approved with no changes or corrections.
RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Thomas White, Vice Chairman
SECONDER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner
AYES: White, Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhausen
V. ZONING CASES
Secretary Barbara Petereson announced that Variance cases will be heard to a conclusion by this Commission. Remaining cases after this hearing will advance to Land Use Development Committee this County Board Room next Tuesday, January 14th at 10:30 AM.
1. WILL COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOTICE OF VARIANCE AMENDING THE WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS ZONING ORDINANCE Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as amended, for Extension request VEXT-19-004, for Case ZC-18-028, Kevin White, Owner of Record, requesting extension (V-18- 022) Variance for minimum side yard setback from 50 feet to 20 feet, for Pin # 18-13-03-300-017-0000, in Green Garden Township, commonly known at 9406 W. Stunkel Road, Frankfort, I
Janine Farrell presented Zoning Case # VEXT-19-004, which takes place in Green Garden Township. This is in response to a Zoning Case, ZC-18-028, which was approved back on June 19, 2018.
It was a request for a Variance for minimum side yard setback from 50 feet to 20 feet.
The applicant was proposing to build a detached pole barn on the property.
The applicant was approved for the first Variance extension request which brought the expiration date to December 16, 2019. The applicant is requesting the second and final Variance extension. If this is approved tonight, it would expire on June 13, 2020.
The applicant has applied for a Building Permit for this pole barn but the Building Permit needs to be issued in order for the Variance to not become void or expire.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much. Does anyone have any questions for Staff?
No response.
2. Motion To Approve Extension Request For Case ZC-18-028, Variance For Minimum Side Yard Setback From 50 Feet To 20 Feet
Motion carried 7-0.
RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Thomas White, Vice Chairman
SECONDER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner
AYES: White, Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhausen
3. Ordinance Amending the Will County, Illinois Zoning Ordinance Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as Amended, for Zoning Case ZC-19-059; Formato Properties LLC, Owner of Record, (Jennifer Formato, 100% Interest), Thomas Osterberger of Kavanagh Grumley & Gorbold LLC, Attorney, Requesting a Zoning Map Amendment (M-19-013) from R-1 to I-1, for Part of Pin #16-05-07-101-018- 0000, in Homer Township, Commonly Known as 14409 S. Archer Avenue, Lockport, IL County Board District #7
Marguerite Kenny presented Zoning Case # ZC-19-059, which takes place in Homer Township.
Just providing a general recap for this Zoning Case, Staff did present this Zoning Case back on November 19, 2019, when the Zoning Case was originally placed on the Agenda.
As it was presented, the attorney at the time, due to the number of concerned neighbors coming forward, requested for it to be tabled. It was then heard December 3, 2019 where the attorney at the time also requested the case to be tabled until tonight.
They are looking to re-zone 1.45 acres to the I-1. A portion is currently zoned R-1.
You have a Staff Report that contains Staff's analysis.
Since that time, Staff has received several emails that you should have received as a memo, as well as the Homer Township letter objecting to this proposed Map Amendment request. Although the Township cannot formally file a legal objection to this Map Amendment request, they have objected to it. So, the 3/4 or Super Majority vote of the County Board will not be activated.
At this time, you have another memo from several concerned neighbors regarding this proposed Map Amendment. They also have prepared a couple PowerPoint presentations should this Commission wish to entertain those.
With that, I would be happy to answer any questions.
Chairman Stipan said thank you. Does anyone have any questions?
John Kiefner asked why can't the Township file a legal objection or formal objection?
Marguerite Kenny said State Statutes says only Municipalities within a mile and a half can file or property owners that share 20% of the property line.
John Kiefner said ok.
Chairman Stipan said seeing this case has already been reviewed a couple of times, I'm going to call the principals for the case up.
Thomas Osterberger introduced himself as the attorney for the Petitioner. This was continued so the Engineer could try to look at what could be possible on the rear to satisfy some site noise complaints. I have the owners here, Jennifer Formato is the owner. Her and her husband run the business next door. This is the property immediately next to their existing business. There are a fair amount of objectors here. For efficiency sake, it may be better if you wish to have them object and then I could respond to that, rather than go back and forth. But I am happy to answer any questions that they may have or that you may have. I received a rather lengthy PowerPoint today with issues that I am happy to address but you really don't want me to do that before they make their objection.
Chairman Stipan said we would be happy to do that Sir. Just go ahead and sit right there.
Barbara Peterson said he wants you to sit right over there.
Thomas Osterberger said let me grab my notes.
Chairman Stipan said because the number of people here tonight and I presume a number of people are objectors or concerned citizens in this case, I'd like to see a show of hands of those who wish to speak tonight. Is that it? 8 people? Ok, as long as it's 8 people, we'll take you one at a time down here to speak. We're going to give you each 3 minutes to speak. Can you run your time clock when they start Sir?
Dawn Tomczak said line up right here and then each person can come down please. The first one can come down. Just stay here and then when he's done, the next person can go.
Chairman Stipan said I want everyone to understand that we're here as a Zoning Board. We're not here to determine whether they're going to build a 3-story building or a 50-story building or any of those things. That doesn't matter to us. What matters to us is if the zoning is correct and whether or not the land is correct. That's our whole mission to make sure that the zoning is done correctly so all concerned parties are fairly represented. Will the first person come down to the podium? I ask you again, do not repeat what the other person has said since we're on limited time.
Daniel Motes introduced himself to the Commission. I'm here today with many of my neighbors to ask you to deny the Zoning case before you. We're going to talk about a few issues that we've had with them as neighbors, and concerns that we have as well. The issue that I'm going to present is part of an Ordinance violation with a modular building that they had. The reason we bring this about is the duration of time that it was there. The concern I have is that it was directly up against the berm towards our homes. Not only that, but if I was to do any work on my home and not obtain a permit for whatever it was I was doing, the repercussions that I would suffer would be a fine, no work if I didn't pay that fine, and most likely to my knowledge, there would be a lien put against my property. Things of that nature. This particular violation was in place for 9 months. The business was still able to operate with said violation. Our concern is that how are they able to proceed with no repercussions when me, as a tax paying citizen, would have to suffer those repercussions. This is just one of multiple violations that we have been able to obtain along with complaints against the business owners for noises, lighting, and things of that nature. These will be presented to you today, by all of the neighbors.
Chairman Stipan said excuse me sir, has anyone called the County and registered the complaints?
Daniel Motes said yes.
Chairman Stipan said I mean at the time the problems were happening?
Daniel Motes said yeah. In the presentation, it does show the communication between the Will County Code Enforcement and the property. For my sake, if something were to happen with work on my home, they would say we're going to give me this amount of time to resolve the issue. 9 months to me seems a little too long. This is just one of multiple issues that we have seen with the property currently. I ask again for you today to please deny that re-zoning of that property to protect myself and my neighbors that are adjoining to this piece of property. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said thank you sir. You were at 2 minutes and 59 seconds. Very well done.
Jerry Sharp introduced himself to the Commission. I tried to explain and let you people before hear what we have to listen to. It just gets to be so annoying that it's unreal. Even though we have been coming here and talking to you, they're just as bad, if not worse now. You'd think they would be on their best behavior but they're not. There's a video where it's just after we came here and talked and it was 3:45 AM. They had lights on top of their semi-trucks. Spot lights. They turned them on in the morning also. You have the video. He says the day and everything on there.
Staff played a video of the trucks in the early morning hours.
Chairman Stipan said please continue to speak, you're running out of time.
Jerry Sharp said they're banging the tailgates, the lights that morning, the backup alarm. Then, when you call the police, they don't do anything. The last time we called there were 4 people that called the same day. There were even some people on the next block that called. Then when the police go there, the police asked if we wanted them to give them a violation, we said yeah. Then, for some reason, I don't know, they never gave them a ticket. How many times can you keep getting up at 3:30, 4:00 in the morning? You can say whatever you want but if you would be there and see what goes on.
Chairman Stipan said sir, address the Board. Don't address anybody else.
Jerry Sharp said it's just unbelievable. You couldn't stand it. None of you people here could stand it.
Chairman Stipan said I understand, I do, believe it or not. I live next to a company that had back up horns going all night long all of the time.
Jerry Sharp said well these go all night long. I don't know how many trucks they have now. At first when they moved in, they told this Board, and I came, they said they were only going to have about 20 trucks at that place. They said they were going to fence it off. They were going to put some fencing and some berms and they talked a whole bunch of stuff when they were first moving in and we came here. They haven't done a thing. Look at all those tires. There has to be a couple hundred tires laying there. In here you talk about the mosquitoes and this and that. Nobody does anything about that? How come the County ain't over there? There's containers of some kind of oil or some kind of fluid. They're hidden behind the bushes and have been laying there for years. What is even in them? I'd sure like to know. They come here and tell ya that it's us and not them. That's what I've got to say.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much.
Michael Nowack introduced himself to the Commission. I'd like to open by asking the Planning & Zoning Committee to not recommend the Zoning of this parcel to all I-1. Re-zoning would lead to the ultimate expansion of the trucking businesses there. Based on past non-compliance of the Will County Zoning Codes, it's unforeseeable on how they will comply in the future. So far, 5 years after the initial complaint, the outdoor landscaping has not been embellished or improved to the point of adequate screening to the public's view as set forth in the Ordinance. These pictures are of a 50 foot crane taken in December, 2018. The complaint was filed and dismissed because the owner said it would be gone by the next week. As you clearly see, the crane was still fully extended and on the property above any screening for the next 8 months. So, for 8 months, they did not comply with the request. This is the current screening solution as seen in those photos taken in November, 2019. It's really nothing more than a couple patches of weeds. Michael showed a picture along Archer Avenue looking into their property, right on the busy highway there. Michael showed a current view from 144th Place. Landscaped Evergreens could easily provide adequate screening if Formato properties would have made an effort years ago. What assurances do we have that they are going to adhere to the Zoning Ordinances that we have in place today if we let them expand further? I ask again today that the Planning & Zoning Committee seek written assurance before considering re- zoning this property.
Chairman Stipan said thank you.
Melissa Dimmik-Walden introduced herself to the Committee. I'm trying to be as clear as possible. I apologize, I'm a little under the weather. I actually share the same stretch of road that they would be occupying should you guys re-zone it. So, it would be right in front of my home. I ask that you do not grant the re-zoning for this property. They're already violating compliance with the floodplain regulations at this time. I will explain that in just a moment. Part of that property is a floodplain. I know that because the floodplain extends out into my property, which is problematic when it rains. Regulations say that there should be no development in a regulatory floodplain that creates an increase in flood stage or velocity offsite or damaging or potentially damaging increase in flood heights or velocity on-site or creates a threat to public health and safety. We will see in just a moment some pictures of the flooding that occurs in front of my home. We're even concerned that even if you are able to do the correct excavation and retention ponds and whatever you need, then will you even be able to put screening in front of the property. It looks like, according to the regulation, that you're not allowed to put any type of screening, no structures, no channel modification, no fencing including landscaping and planting designed to act as a fence and storage of materials.
Melissa Dimmik-Walden then showed some pictures that she took when it was raining.
Melissa Dimmik-Walden said we're just concerned that should they develop the property across the street from us that this problem will get worse. You're not supposed to develop in a floodplain. You're not supposed to clear the land or strip grade, excavate, or fill the land without having obtained a Site Development Permit and they have not obtained that Permit. There is a patch in that section that is already cleared. There's actually more cleared, we just don't have an overhead picture of the clearing. So, that's already being violated.
Chairman Stipan said let me add something. They can't get the Site Development Permit until they get zoning or don't get zoning.
Melissa Dimmik-Walden said yes, I know. They haven't done that yet which means they're already in violation. Again, I just ask that you deny the re-zoning due to the fact that they have pretty blatant disregard to regulations. We're also concerned about the rest of the neighborhood being affected by all the noise, sound, and flooding. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much.
Ron Lindsey introduced himself. The reason I'm here is because, which we have all seen it, when they start these trucks up in the morning and let them idle for hours on end, my house is directly right behind them. I am probably the most middle house there. When they're out there idling in the wintertime, that wind comes out of the north and blows all that exhaust right over our subdivision. I went out there in the mornings and it looked like clouds. I have a night light in the back of my house and it looked like a cloud coming over. It was diesel. I could smell it, it was burning my eyes. A lot of them aren't up as early as I am. I used to get up at 3:30 in the morning to get ready for work and I would go outside to let the dog out and there it was. Of course, you already knew about the noise. I hear it just as well as everybody else does. The main thing that I want to talk about was the long idling times. I don't believe they're supposed to let them idle for as long as they're idling to warm up in the winter. Not to mention the brakes freezing up. Now, they're driving around the parking lot boom, boom, boom, trying to get their trailer bakes loose. With empty trucks, it sounds like they're coming through our walls. That's my main focus of what I wanted to get across was the diesel smell and obviously the noise. I work construction so I kind of got past seeing all the equipment. Everybody else has touched on everything else. I wanted to touch base on that. That's about all I have to say.
Chairman Stipan said thank you.
Ron Lindsey said thank you.
Heather Glockler introduced herself to the Commission. I believe there was also a few pictures as well as another video that was to accompany the former speaker’s complaint. I'm not sure if those got uploaded. I know we dropped them off. At this time, I'm going to go ahead and reflect on my parts of the speaking. I am here today to ask you to deny the re-zoning for the prior reasons as well as the reason I'm about to discuss. Outdoor lighting was an issue from January, 2017 through November, 2017. At least 5 of those months there were little to no leaves on the trees to block the light. The Ordinance clearly states that outdoor lighting cannot exceed 50 foot candles on abutting properties and all lights must be shielded to prevent spillover. The Will County Code Enforcement agent was unable to get a reading due to a faulty meter on several occasions.
Heather Glockler showed a picture of the approved lighting sources.
Heather Glockler said the lighting sources that Formato Properties/Sorrelli Trucking used were 4 metal halide lamps at 1,000 watts per lamp. That's 4,000 watts per unit facing the neighborhood. There were no fewer than 2 of those on the property. In applying the Ordinances, Formato Properties was in direct violation due to exceeding permitted light sources and spillover as evidenced in the photo. The violation threatened public health and safety as well as the right of quiet enjoyment of adjacent residential properties. The pictures shown were taken February, 2017. On July 18, 2019, the Will County Code Enforcement agent deemed International Hauling a trucking company, a trucking terminal. This is not a permitted use. International will bring more heavy machinery with growth and expansion. They will bring approximately 15 tractors and 75 trailers according to their website. Formato Properties/Sorelli Trucking/International Hauling is a truck terminal and fits the exact definition as listed in the Will County Ordinances. It is not permitted without a Special Use Permit in Industrial 1. No Special Use Permit was ever applied for.
Heather Glockler handed out a letter dated November 19, 2014.
Heather Glockler said I have highlighted some crucial pieces of information. I'm also handing out 143rd Street Subarea. According to the I-355 Corridor Master Plan, it states as well as the Staff Report states that this kind of use does not conform to the stated use in the I-355 Master Plan and it doesn't.
Chairman Stipan said you have exceeded your 3 minutes. Heather Glockler asked may I have just 1 more minute? Chairman Stipan asked are there any more speakers?
No response.
Chairman Stipan said yes, you may have 1 more minutes.
Heather Glockler said thank you very much. I, my family, my neighbors and 82 residents of Lockport are asking you to deny the re-zoning for all of these reasons.
Heather Glockler passed out a Change petition.
Heather Glockler said if you must approve this today, we are demanding limitations and conditions for all parcels owned by Formato Properties including those at 14401 and 14409 South Archer Avenue in Lockport. Some of those include resolving the current violations prior to any new permit, approvals, or additional land clearing, limit operating hours and noise to 5:30 AM to 5:00 PM as stated in their 2014 letter Monday through Friday and weekends from 7:00 AM to 5:30 PM. We are also asking that you require flood mitigation including a retention pond and grading must conform to the Ordinances. Strict limitations and compliance with approved lighting sources should be required. Require screening along all residential lots, not just along Archer Avenue. 12-18 foot sound walls was actually suggested by one of the Committee members on the Board. We are also asking that those sound walls be at street level, not at their level because they are much lower than we are. Evergreen trees at least 6 feet tall at the time of planting and meeting or exceeding all Will County Ordinances. All heavy machinery including cranes that are taller than 35 feet must be stored in a position that limits visibility to 144th place. It must be screened appropriately. Strict limitations of all public nuisances as we discussed. Accumulation of all debris, tires, containers, etc. all of this for the public safety and welfare. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said thank you.
Heather Glockler said I would like to just hand one more thing out.
Chairman Stipan said you dialed your time, just to let you know.
Heather Glockler said this is just police reports that we FOIA'd for the noise issues with the most recent being 12/12. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said all of this information that you passed forward will go on the record.
Heather Glockler said it's all yours. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said Mr. Osterberger would you care to reply to any of these?
Thomas Osterberger said yes, thank you. I have a couple things. I have some sympathy, always have sympathy for the objectors. I represent objectors. When we have any kind of difference in use next to each other, we are clearly going to have issues. Archer Avenue is a significant arterial. We have trucking companies down the road. We have excavators down the road. Sorrelli Trucking, I don't know how they started, they are an excavator contractor and this is the yard they work from. That will become evident as we respond to a few of these things. Will County has very good Code Inspectors. I know most of them. They're not pushovers. They can push you right over the edge, but they're also patient. When they come out and they say you have a violation, this is a problem and we need it corrected, they're usually pretty patient. Either they file a case or they ask you to correct it and then they file the case. Either way it gets resolved. Most of these objections deal with alleged violations of the Code. They don't have to do with this property. They're pointed against my client and the ideas to make my client look like a bad person. Nobody likes excavating companies. They're big, bulky, and not pretty, hence we need to screen. But let me address each of these issues. OFFICE TRAILER: The office trailer was brought onto this property by a prior tenant. My client used it. The County came out and said hey, you can't have it. My client got rid of it and there was not a citation issued. It was gone. If it was there for 9 months while my client used it, well shame on my client for not knowing that they weren't allowed to have it there. I have pictures of the neighborhood from the objectors. We have tractor trailers parked on the streets. We have heavy equipment in driveways. I can show it to you but that isn't the point. The point is that not everybody knows exactly how to comply with regulations. We don't know. There's millions of laws and millions of Ordinances. When you contact one of the inspectors, sometimes they know off the bat and hence they tell you. Sometimes they have to look it up. So, office trailer, I addressed that. NOISE: The noise, I will address that in a minute. TIRES: The tires that you saw pictures of, my client's an excavator. All kinds of equipment puts tires on there. They hire people to remove those. That isn't a junk yard. Near those tires we saw walls because they're excavators and they put walls like you see on the highway. We saw crane mats and the large look like railroad tiles. All that stuff they use. Those tires are removed and I can get my client to tell you that he has a receipt showing they were removed. Tires are a problem. You have to change them and you have to get them out. That isn't junk. The other bin that is there is an oil bin. It is used to remove the oil and they burn the oil. There have been 3 complaints by people. None of these people here I assume. Will County EPA and Illinois EPA and County complaints to come out. All said there was oil being buried. There was allegedly hazardous waste being sprayed on trucks. People don't do that to their own property. The inspectors came out, they said things were fine and there were no violations issued. CRANE: The crane is there. I haven't had a chance to talk to Planning about that. I don't know what we do in our Industrial zoned areas where we have tall equipment. It should be shielding. It was there. There wasn't a citation issued. Had they been told to disassemble it and put it down because of height they would have. They weren't cited for that. That's their equipment. The screening all around the property, when this was zoned Industrial in 2014 by my office, the screening on the back was deemed adequate. They still feel it's adequate. If they feel it's not adequate, we can remove trees and berm. As with respect to the owner, the County has never said that the screening is inadequate. If you go around to Archer, there's the entry. On the northeast end of the property, the plan now is to put a little more screen and to put a gate. We went to Lockport and said what do you think? They said the screening you have there is fine. If it gets down to where you need a little bit of fence, we will tell you what we like. So with respect to screening, nobody has ever said my client's not in compliance. The Ordinance is clear, you have to screen. We pass the zoning here, you recommend approval and it gets approved and the County says this is the screening we need. Excuse me for getting a little upset but they haven't been told it's wrong because it isn't. There's 40 feet of trees. If the County says I'm sorry these are.
Someone blurted out something from the audience.
Chairman Stipan said any comments more and I will have you removed, understand that.
Thomas Osterberger said they're deciduous trees. If it is a problem in the winter, then maybe the County should say so and we'll have to address it, no matter who they are. FLOODING: The County has good engineers and we'll have to comply. No offense to the objector, the area down there that is a floodplain isn't going to be touched. That's where the trees are. The County makes sure that's right. County engineers are the toughest to deal with. That's the hardest part of the process. I will point out, every time there's a case, last time I had a conversation with one of the objectors who I don't see here tonight, it was a very nice conversation. I said gosh, tell us what we can do. This is not a Special Use request. It re-zoning so it can't be conditioned. Today was the first time I saw those flooding pictures. I asked that this be extended because I asked Geotech if they could figure something out. The existing parcel has grade differential from 144th down about 15 feet. So, there's a natural screen there. It may not be adequate according to the objectors and I understand that. The problem is that the grade then goes down. Geotech said we could prepare something but we're going to have to remove the trees, show a berm 3 to 1 slope or what have you, and then fence it. That's something that the County could require and that would be fine. What disappoints me though is, this property is lower. You see pictures of flooding, this property doesn't cause any flooding. That's just an exaggeration or that's not truthful how that's presented. I'm sure we're going to have to put a detention pond there. I'm sure 144th have ditches that go somewhere. The County could have asked and we could try to re-route that water. That's what we tried to do. Had I known that was it, I would have asked Geotech to see if we could solve the problem. I didn't know it floods but I know one thing, it's not related to this property. IDLING TRUCKS: I can have my client come up and we can talk to them about how they operate. Trucks idle in the winter, that’s the exception to the Statute and there’s a reason for that. Nobody leaves their trucks idling in the summer because it doesn’t make sense. It’s just financial sense. LIGHTING: With respect to the lights, there was a burglary on the property, I think in 2016 or 2017. That light was temporary. If it was shining at the neighbors, that’s wrong. The light was there for a long time. The County came out and said hey look, you have to take care of this. The light was removed. There was no citation issued. Directing lights towards homes, you can’t do that. That was temporary because of the burglary. Had the County come out, we would have removed it right away. So, that’s all we have. We’re dealing with an acre here. The front part is Industrial. It’s not an expansion of the business. They’re just looking to expand the yard. To suggest that they’re not a good operator, is disappointing. NOISE: With respect to the noise, we can question our owner of the hours and how they operate. There’s been several noise complaints and to my knowledge, nobody has talked to them. Jennifer is in the office all day long. I would request that you recommend an approval. It’s right next to the Industrial. I think its right. It has Industrial north, Industrial to the left, and it’s certainly not proper for Residential. If the slope is too low, you’re going to come off and you’re going to access off of 144th. It’s not correctly zoned and it sat as Residential for a long, long time. I apologize, I don’t know how it ever got split zoned, and maybe I should try to figure that out. We think that the Industrial zoning is correct. Again, I don’t mean to attack the objectors but I think to punish this user for using their property in the manner it's zoned for is wrong. The County can tell them if they have a problem and so far we haven't seen that. One case, and I will give them credit. When Geotech came in and we met with the County, there was a plan. There was to be a submission. They jumped the gun. Greg Ratajczak went out and said you can't start development and they stopped. That's the only citation pending against them.
Chairman Stipan said I would like to ask 2 questions. One of the sources address the fact that the pole of the lights are put on top of trucks and they drive around. If that's the case, they are still violating the Light Code to the residents.
Thomas Osterberger said if that is the case, I agree absolutely.
Chairman Stipan said the other thing that they complain about is the noise continues and they've called the police. 4 neighbors called the police in the same night and nothing seems to happen.
Thomas Osterberger said over the course of 4 years, there has been several noise complaints. I have the Sheriff's records as well. Nobody has contacted my client. There was one allegation of shots. Rink's Range is the property next door. Nobody to their knowledge shot anything. Another one was a burglar alarm going off. That would be annoying but I get it. The allegation from December 12th on the video, which is the first time I saw it, I don't know what it is. They contacted the Sheriff and the Sheriff wrote a citation. It is up on the 14th. I'll see what it is. To suggest that there are daily or weekly violations, the Sheriff's records just don't prove that.
Chairman Stipan asked does anyone else have any questions?
John Kiefner said I have several I guess. I did do some homework on this on the AM Legal website and I guess I need some guidance from Staff here. I believe we have the documents here that say the initial I-1 Zoning was given in 2014? Marguerite Kenny said that is correct.
John Kiefner asked was a truck terminal a Special Use Permit required in 2014?
Marguerite Kenny said I believe so. At the time, Staff did get a letter of intention from the current property owner on how they would like to use the property when they purchased it. The previous owner went through the zoning to request it to I-1. It was classified as to be construction services and not a truck terminal at that time so we have honored that classification since then.
John Kiefner said I believe one of the objectors brought this up. The Special Use Permit would be required if it is a truck terminal?
Marguerite Kenny said that is correct.
John Kiefner asked who would make that determination today?
Marguerite Kenny said we would.
John Kiefner said you would.
Marguerite Kenny said based on what is transpiring on the property.
John Kiefner said so my question to Mr. Osterberger is how long has Formato Properties been operating on this property?
Thomas Osterberger said it was re-zoned Industrial in 2014. They were not the owner at that time. They have been on this property since 2017, I believe. When they came to the County several months back, this was discussed. Again, they do a lot of different work. That's what I said, there's a lot of materials out there. You saw a crane out there. Trucking companies don't have cranes. The County believed that this was an excavating company. I agree with them. Obviously they could always change their mind on that so we're asking that this piece be zoned consistent with the other piece.
John Kiefner said except the crane is now gone. I drove by the property. It's full of trucks and there's tires. I'm pretty sure there's fuel storage. It looks like, smells like, and acts like a truck terminal. I think it's operating outside of the current zoning on that piece of property.
Thomas Osterberger said to respond to you I would say we're seeking I-1 Industrial Zoning for the property, we are not seeking Special Use. If your suggestion is if you want to do this you need a Special Use, that's a different issue.
That's for you and Staff to go down that road and we'll have to respond, but that isn't our request today.
John Kiefner said you did state in your proposal that they just want to expand the parking, they're not going to expand the business. We know what the current business is, or what it appears to be operating on that property right now. I've seen this on many pieces of property. They start with something and they slowly morph into something that wasn't what everybody first saw and everybody first thought. I'm having a lot of concerns about this.
Thomas Osterberger said I understand Commissioner but the issue is what is the property zoned for. If it's not used correctly, then they're in violation. So, by voting to approve this to be consistent next door, doesn't mean that if tomorrow they only do trucking and you see containers and they're hauling, that they're not in violation. I understand your point but the request today, and I think Staff agrees with this but, things can change in the future. They're not grandfathered in for a use that they're not permitted to do.
John Kiefner said I have one more question for Staff. I couldn't find anything on this, are there time limits of operation in the I-1 Zoning District?
Marguerite Kenny said not to my knowledge.
John Kiefner said so they could be operating 24/7?
Marguerite Kenny said that is correct. I do want to clarify some of the confusion with the properties. The property located at 14401, which is the property directly south of the subject property for the Map Amendment request, is actively in violation for screening as well as outdoor storage. If you look at the Zoning maps, there's that property south of 14401 with the "V" for vacant. That one does not have a principal structure located on the property so technically that is violating the Zoning Ordinance by having an outdoor storage yard. When the applicant's came in to meet with Staff last year, there was a timeline of steps to bring the parcel into compliance. The first step is pursuing a Map Amendment for the R-1 portion of the subject property so that they could then consolidate the northern parcel and that southern parcel that does not have the building on it with 14401. That way they could bring the entire 3 parcels into compliance by making it 1. Then the primary structure, being the office building for the construction services, would be applied to the entire parcel.
Thomas Osterberger said already that could be done. You could consolidate those other 2 now.
Marguerite Kenny said correct.
John Kiefner asked why isn't that part of this proposal? Could it have been? Why aren't we moving forward to try these? If the County has identified that these are the steps that need to be done, and we're talking about the same person here?
Thomas Osterberger said the idea was to get this done and then consolidate them. That can be done. Again, it's not a Special Use where we condition. Contrary to what the objector said, on straight zoning, we can't condition it. If they ask that they be consolidated when we applied, we always do it. There's 2 properties and 2 PIN #'s. One, the County has deemed and I disagree, if one doesn't have a structure and it's a PIN # and one has a structure then this is out there hanging and isn't associated with the building. I understand their concern that it could be sold off. The truth is, if you comply with platting you could separate and get a new PIN #. There's not a reason it wouldn't be done. Frankly, there's no reason we wouldn't consolidate the 2 in question anyway. You wouldn't consolidate an R-1 with this because that would be another split zoned parcel.
John Kiefner said just so I understand, both are I-1 and they could be combined.
Marguerite Kenny said that is correct.
Thomas Osterberger said unless you build another structure and sell it separately, you're going to put them together. There's no delay. There's not a specific reason to delay that.
Marguerite Kenny said Staff also advised should the parcels remain, the outdoor storage is a separate Special Use so each parcel that did not have the structure would require a Special Use.
Michael Carruthers said I have a question. The neighbors have concerns mostly about the noise and the lights. How can we involve the owners?
Thomas Osterberger said I learned 2 things here tonight. One, the screening is inadequate. When you look at the aerials, there's 40 feet of trees. If that's inadequate in the winter, the County needs to take the position that it's great in the summer but in the winter it's not. Somebody said that evergreen trees would solve that. The County could simply say come up to 144th where you're at grade and plant evergreens along there. So far that hasn't happened. I understand why but once we get approval, they will deem what screening is correct or not.
Chairman Stipan said there's all types of screening. It depends on what County determines after you're ready for a site plan but you have to have the zoning first.
Thomas Osterberger said unfortunately Archer Avenue is easy. There's nothing there. You build a berm and close it in and you make it look pretty. Whatever the County wants for landscaping is fine. If it's not high enough, then you put the fence. With this grade differential and the trees, it's a challenge.
Michael Carruthers asked how about the lighting on the trucks? Are they going to eliminate that? I saw here they have those tripods.
Thomas Osterberger said those are gone. That was there one time but it's gone. I assume the lights on the building are pointed correctly. With respect to lights on tops of the trucks, I don't know what that would be. I have the owner here, we can ask if they have any trucks of this nature.
Chairman Stipan said thank you sir. Anyone else? Is that it? I want to remind the Board that we're here for a Zoning Case. We all have various personal feelings on all kinds of subjects. We're here to determine if this is proper zoning or improper zoning and will it be used correctly when it's zoned correctly. So, having said that, I'm going to ask for a motion.
Chairman Stipan said thank you all for attending. I'm sorry it took so long but that's the nature of the business.
4. Motion To Approve A Map Amendment From R-1 To I-1
Roll Call Vote was taken. Motion failed 0-7.
RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Thomas White, Vice Chairman
SECONDER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner
AYES: White, Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhausen
5. CASE ZC-19-065 on Agenda for December 3, 2019 this case will be heard on January 7, 2020 WILL COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOTICE OF VARIANCE AMENDING THE WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS ZONING ORDINANCE Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as amended, for Case ZC-19-065, Domingo Cabral, Owner of Record, requesting (V-19-069) Variance for minimum side yard setback from 50 feet to 20 feet (north) and (V-19-073) Variance for lot frontage from 300 feet to 166.14 feet, for Pin # 23-15-21-101- 021-0000, in Crete Township, commonly known as 25659 S. Dixie Highway, Crete IL
Lisa Napoles presented Zoning Case # ZC-19-065, which takes place in Crete Township.
This is an application for 2 Variances. The first for a minimum side yard setback from 50 feet to 20 feet on the north property line. The second is for minimum lot frontage from 300 feet to 166.14 feet.
The applicant and owner is Domingo Cabral.
This is a case that was originally tabled on November 19, 2019.
The subject parcel is located on Dixie Highway in Crete Township.
The lot is characterized by a narrow west portion, which is improved with a residence and garage and a larger east portion, which has active farming.
The Zoning map shows the property is Zoned A-1. It borders A-1 parcels to the south, C-4 parcels to the west, A-2 and C-4 to the north, and a large vacant parcel in the Village of Crete to the east which is zoned I-1 Industrial.
According to the Plat of Survey, the lot frontage is 166.14 feet.
The owner is requesting a Variance to bring the lot frontage into compliance.
According to the Site Plan, the proposed barn will measure 84 feet by 50 feet.
The owner is requesting a 20 foot setback to construct the barn in the location shown on the Site Plan.
Because the narrow portion of the lot measures 166.14 feet, the width of the lot can accommodate a 50 foot wide barn while conforming to the 50 foot side yard setbacks required in the A-1 District.
Based on the criteria by which the Plan Commission and Staff are required by Ordinance to evaluate, Staff recommends the approval of the lot frontage Variance. The plight of the owner is due to a unique circumstance. The deficient lot frontage is an existing condition of the property since 1988. For those reasons, Staff also believes that the deficient lot frontage does not have the potential to alter the essential character of the locality.
Staff recommends denial of the 20 foot side yard Variance. The application for the side yard variance is not based on a unique circumstance. The parcel can accommodate a 50 foot wide barn while conforming to the required 50 foot side yard setbacks. Deviating from the required 50 foot side yard setbacks would alter the essential character of the A-1 Zoning District.
Staff is recommending denial of the side yard setback and approval of the minimum lot frontage requests.
I can answer any questions you may have.
Chairman Stipan asked does anyone have any questions of Staff?
Barbara Peterson asked why would you deny that side yard?
Lisa Napoles said because the lot could accommodate it. The narrowest part of the lot is 166.14 feet.
Barbara Peterson said I know but there's a storage unit area right there. Lisa Napoles said this is for a new building.
Barbara Peterson said ok. I can't see why there would be a problem with giving them that Variance.
Lisa Napoles said my recommendation is based on the lot allowing the construction of a barn which conforms.
Barbara Peterson said so you want them to build their barn east, behind. Lisa Napoles said south of the proposed location.
Barbara Peterson asked south? South?
Lisa Napoles said yes.
Barbara Peterson said ok.
Lisa Napoles said closer towards the middle of the property.
Barbara Peterson said I know the property well. This is why I'm questioning.
Barbara Peterson said I can't see where it's going to be a problem although I should let the applicant do their own talking.
John Kiefner said when I was new, I didn't understand this, but your role as Staff here is to only look at x, y, and z and make that criteria. And, that is what you've done here?
Lisa Napoles said yes.
John Kiefner said it's up to us to make that decision. Lisa Napoles said we evaluate based on the Ordinance.
John Kiefner said that's for you then Roger too. I had to learn that the hard way, for us rookies. Ok.
Chairman Stipan asked does anyone else have any questions of Staff? No response.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much.
Lisa Napoles said thank you.
Chairman Stipan asked is the owner or representative here tonight? The applicant?
Barbara Peterson said they weren't here before. Oh, there they are. They weren't here last time.
Chairman Stipan asked are there any objectors or concerned citizens with this case?
No response.
Chairman Stipan asked no? Thank you.
John Kiefner said no objectors.
Thomas White said no English.
Dawn Tomczak said no habla espanol.
Barbara Peterson asked what happened? He can't speak English?
Lisa Napoles said the gentleman's preferred language is not English and he is asking me to explain my recommendations to him.
Barbara Peterson said oh, ok. Can you do that?
Lisa Napoles said yes I can.
Barbara Peterson said alright, wow.
Lisa Napoles said my only concern is does our conversation have to be part of the record?
Barbara Peterson said it's going to be anyway, so yes. John Kiefner said it will be recorded, right?
Barbara Peterson said it's a plus for you.
Lisa Napoles said yes.
Lisa: La convenccion de.de.de hoy y los otras de oficienen es que vamos a aprobar cambiando la distancia que la.en frente de su propiedad para aprobar con la ordinanza pero su pregunta para poner un Nuevo edificio--un barn--en lugar que quiero no vamos a aprobar. Lo queremos aprobar que se puede poner un edificio a la mitad exactamente.
Translation: The meeting of.of.of today and the others officiating is that we want to approve changing the distance at the front of your property to (conform to) the ordinance but your question of putting a new building-a barn-in the place you want, we are not going to approve. What we want to approve is putting the barn exactly in the middle.
Domingo Cabral: ***mumbles***.en la futura. Translation: ***mumbles***.in the future.
Lisa: No, no en el centro, pero aqui en el.en el dibujo puede ver que solo queremos que pone el edificio un poco mas al sur.
Translation: No, not in the center, but here in the.in the drawing you can see.we only want you to put the building a little more to the south.
Domingo Cabral: Si.el septico. Translation: If.the septic.
***Some of this conversation was not able to be heard due to other conversations in the area.***
Lisa Napoles said the gentleman is saying that is where his septic is. That was not indicated on the plat as we received them. Therefore, we obviously would have. So, given this new information, I’m not sure what we should do. He said that’s why his request is to put it where it is based on the location of the septic.
Kimberly Mitchell said that’s what we needed to know. Chairman Stipan said that’s exactly what we needed to know.
Barbara Peterson said yeah, very good. Well, I’m not going to understand him if he talks. Thank you, Lisa. That was a first. After 20 years, a first.
John Kiefner said I cannot wait to see those minutes from Kris. Will the recorder pick up that far?
WILL COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOTICE OF VARIANCE AMENDING THE WILL COUNTY, ILLINOIS ZONING ORDINANCE Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as amended, for Case ZC-19-074, Anthony Rosa, Owner of Record, Lisa Anderson, Agent, requesting (V-19-076) Variance for maximum number of animal units allowed in the A-2 zoning district from six (6) to eighteen (18), for Pin # 18-13-14-100-008-000 in Green Garden Township; commonly known as 8527 W. Dralle Road, Frankfort, IL
Lisa Napoles presented Zoning Case # ZC-19-074, which takes place in Green Garden Township.
This is an application for a Variance for a maximum number of animal units permitted in the A-2 Zoning District.
The applicant and owner is Anthony Rosa with Lisa Anderson as agent.
A boarding stable operates on the property under the name of Allure Acres.
This application is the second submitted by the owners in 2019. The first, ZC-19- 056, was withdrawn due to inactivity. This case was originally scheduled to be heard on December 3, 2019.
The subject parcel is located on West Dralle Road in Green Garden Township. The lot measures 6.9 acres in area.
The property is improved with a 2 story single family home, a garage, 2 barns, and a shed.
There are no identified wetlands or floodplains located on the property. The Zoning Map shows the property is zoned A-2.
The subject parcel borders A-1 parcels on the east and south, A-2 parcels on the west and E-2 parcels on the north.
Due to scheduling conflicts, Staff was not able to conduct a site inspection of the property.
On June 26, 2019, Code Enforcement Staff conducted a field inspection in response to a complaint on this property. Code Enforcement Staff reported that during the inspection, the owner said there were around 10 horses on the property at that time. Code Enforcement Staff issued Property Maintenance Violation # 19LU00653.
The property owners submitted a Zoning Application for a Variance for maximum number of animal units on July 30, 2019. That application, ZC-19-056 was withdrawn by Staff on October 9, 2019 due to inactivity and returned to the owner.
The owner submitted the application for ZC-19-074 on October 10th seeking a Variance for maximum number of animal units from 6 to 18. This is the case you are hearing this evening.
The lot area of the parcel measures 6.9 acres.
The applicant has not informed Staff of a definitive number of horses that are currently boarded on the property or in which barn they are located.
The Plat shows neither barn meets the required 50 foot side yard setbacks for animal confinement required buildings in the A-2 Zoning District. They were advised of this, however the owner has not applied for Variances to bring these into compliance.
Based on the criteria by which Staff and the Plan Commission are required by Ordinance to evaluate, Staff recommends denial of the Variance for maximum number of animal units. The plight of the owner is not due to a unique circumstance. The owner operates a boarding stable on the property and is seeking the Variance to further their business.
With at least 3 other boarding stables operating in Frankfort, Staff finds that the current use does not alter the essential character of the locality.
By these criteria, Staff recommends denial of the Variance of maximum number of animal units in the A-2 District from 6 to 18.
Staff is recommending denial of the request.
I can take any questions.
Chairman Stipan asked does anyone have any questions of Staff?
John Kiefner asked they don't need to address the side yard setback, this request can stand alone on its own?
Lisa Napoles said no, that would need to be addressed to bring the property into compliance.
John Kiefner asked there's no requirement that they have to?
Lisa Napoles said there is a requirement. They just have not applied for the Variance.
John Kiefner said ok.
Lisa Napoles said the application was submitted for the animal units.
John Kiefner said you haven't even made a determination if the side yard setback is legal, nonconforming have you?
Lisa Napoles said because we do not know how long and when we’re confining animals, we have not been able to determine if they are legal nonconforming.
John Kiefner said ok.
Lisa Napoles said actually if I could correct myself, because we don't definitively know how long and with what consistency horses have been boarded on the property, we're not able to make that determination.
John Kiefner said I know you have a letter but I can speak from personal experience. I delivered hay there 6, 8, and I think even up to 15 years ago and it's always, in my opinion, exceeded that.
Lisa Napoles said ok.
John Kiefner said the buildings are, I'm guessing 30+ years old. I don't think we need to address that unless you want to.
Janine Farrell said when the Zoning action was applied for regarding the amount of animal units, the applicant was advised that the animal confinement structures need to meet the minimum 50 foot side yard setback. The structures do not meet the side yard setback. We don't know where the animals are being housed currently on the property. We don't know, as Lisa was saying, if historically they've always been housed in that same stable, if it's a legal nonconforming situation. We have not received that information so we cannot make that determination.
Chairman Stipan said I have one more question. Why were they not able to access the property for inspections?
Janine Farrell said I can speak to that too since that was me. We had reached out to the applicant in order to coordinate scheduling of this site visit but due to the nature of the property with the horses and the buildings and housing the horses being so far back from the road, we were not able to coordinate scheduling. So, there were images taken from the right of way off the property since we did not have permission to access the property at the time of our site inspection.
Chairman Stipan said ok, thank you. Is the applicant or the agent here tonight? Someone raised her hand.
Chairman Stipan asked are there any objectors or concerned citizens here for this case tonight?
Several people raised their hands.
Chairman Stipan said there are. Ok. Thanks.
Lisa Anderson introduced herself to the Commission. I would first like to state that the buildings, when I first went into the Land Use and we did an overview of it, the main barn was built in 1976 as well the small barn. I do know that the rest of the buildings were built at least prior to 1988. So, they were all existing prior to that year. I do have a letter from the previous owner about the amount of horses that she had on the property and the amount of horses that the owner before her had on the property.
Lisa Anderson passed that letter around to the Commission.
Chairman Stipan said just so you recognize, when you give us this, this is going to the Staff to go into the permanent record.
Lisa Anderson said oh, ok. That's fine. I do have a petition that I started on Change.org of approval for our Variance. I have 986 signatures.
Barbara Peterson asked 986 signatures?
Lisa Anderson said yes.
Barbara Peterson said there aren't that many neighbors there.
Lisa Anderson said I reached out to people in the horse community. This is including people who knew the original owners of the barn 40 years ago and people who board horses in the community. There are people who board their horses in our surrounding area who live in Indiana. That's people who experience the general area horse community going all the way back from the original owner. I don't really have anything. That's all I got.
Chairman Stipan said our Zoning laws say you’re only allowed 1 large animal per acre. You have say 7 animals that you could put on there if we gave you that extra tenth of an acre. So, you're asking for 18.
Lisa Anderson said we were sold the property as an 18 stall property. That's what it was sold to us as. That's what it was listed as. In the main barn, there are 15 stalls. That smaller barn to the west has 3. When we purchased the property, that's what it was advertised as.
Chairman Stipan asked how many horses were there when you purchased the property, do you know?
Lisa Anderson said there were 15.
Chairman Stipan said 15, ok.
Kimberly Mitchell said we're looking at a situation where we're trying to put the horse before the barn so to speak. They've got their property and they've got their facilities there for 18 horses, but we don't know whether those barns are in a place that's legal nonconforming where they're going to have to ask for a Special Use Permit. You're asking us to give them these horses not know whether or not they have legal nonconforming facilities to hold these horses. They should have come in here and got a Special Use to have those Variances on the setback before they ask for the horses. I can't vote for her to have 18 horses when we don't know if she's going to have barns for the horses to live in. This seems backwards to me and I don't know. How did that happen? Why weren't they told to get the first part taken care of?
Janine Farrell said we advised them at the Pre-Application meeting for the zoning action that the structures need to be 50 feet and an additional Variance or Variances could be applied for. They did not apply for them.
Kimberly Mitchell said ok.
Janine Farrell said we advised them to do that. It would bring everything into compliance on the property. We ultimately cannot force someone to make an additional Variance request and pay an additional fee.
Kimberly Mitchell said I understand. I have the information I need. Barbara Peterson said thank you for asking that.
Chairman Stipan asked are there any other questions?
Kimberly Mitchell said not from me.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much.
Chairman Stipan said I will ask for a motion on this case.
Thomas White said there are objectors.
Chairman Stipan said oh yes. I'm sorry, I apologize. The objectors I would like to hear one at a time.
Monroe Striggow introduced himself to the Commission. I am their neighbor that borders the south property. I was served with a certified letter about the hearing tonight. I'm here to respond to request a denial for what they're asking. I have several reasons for making that denial. One of them is I think they super ceded the Green Garden Township people by coming directly to the County. If they would have approached the Township and its Planning Commission first, I think perhaps they may be able to rectify this problem before they got in here asking for horses. With the building setbacks, they're not asking for what they should have been asking for from the very beginning. My property lies a half a mile deep so that means I have 2,640 feet long. The neighbors off Dralle Road have about 230 feet of frontage. So if you can picture my 260 feet and the neighbors with 230, I've got the potential of having 12 of these barns with horses on them. I like animals, I don't have anything against the animals. On the 6 acres that we're talking about, what the picture showed is basically the east and west direction on Dralle Road. The picture from their driveway looking north, which is an E-2 subdivision, but to the south all you see is the driveway and their lake. Actually what we have here on the 6.9 acres is a front yard, a back yard, a side yard and buildings. We've got 6 horses on a very small area. On the back side of their property is where I'm located at. There's definitely a containment problem with the animals. I farm back there. I farm all the way to the fence. I have some conservation reserve acres back there that have been mowed down. It looks like a riding trail or maybe a 4 wheel drive trail. There's something going on back there. I can't see who's doing what. By the time I get out there and find out who it is, they're disappear on me. So, how do you know who it is or what it is?
Chairman Stipan asked your conservation property was mowed? Monroe Striggow said some of it was, yes.
Chairman Stipan said ok.
Monroe Striggow said to get to a path.
Chairman Stipan said ok.
Monroe Striggow said which is not supposed to be unless I'm trying to control something, not just weeds or something like that. What I'm saying is this should not have been done. It was not done at my approval or any of that. I'm trying to be a good neighbor. I didn't incur any serious damage or injury, so it's good enough for me. I like the horses and I'm okay with the animals. I've lived out that way for about 30 or 31 years. It's kind of been a problem area. I own that property. Before the Rosa's owned it, that property was owned by the other owners and they had tenants there working those barns and stables. I'm not for sure if they were absentee owners or inactive. I don't know where those owners actually lived. I'm not that type to not know my neighbors. My recommendation here is for denial. I think trying to get 18 horses on a 6 acre lot is like trying to get, I guess we have about 30 chairs here, how would you like to have 90 people sitting up here? It's unfair to the animals as well as it's unfair to the neighbors. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said thank you sir. Can we have the next person please?
Roberta Schultz introduced herself to the Commission. I am the unfortunate neighbor that lives directly next door to them. As a matter of fact, here's a halter that I picked out of my yard this morning as she was chasing horses again through my property. This is a weekly thing. Here's your halter.
Barbara Peterson said you've got to tell us your name.
Roberta Schultz said I did. To expand on Monroe's and the mowing part, I caught them mowing it. I can't see the back of my property completely because my barn blocks it and my pond has a berm. I caught them mowing a path and wondered why are they mowing my property going into Monroe's. They were allowing all the boarders at their illegal business to ride through my property and through his farm field. Through his bean field. I took my husband’s bobcat and pushed a dead tree across. I blocked off their little path. I have so much paperwork here that I could show you. Oh, this happens weekly. The first time my husband was very quiet and refused to speak. The first time we met them in June, I was not home. I grew up with horses and my father still has horses. My sister breeds and shows. We love animals. I do rescue. I rescue dogs, horses, pigs, everything. I work with many rescues. Anyways, let's just get back. My father and mother are in their 80's. My mother has Parkinson's. My father today had a surgery on his back because he fractured his vertebrae. He had surgery today.
Roberta Schultz showed a picture of her father and her father's dog, Peanut.
Roberta Schultz said Peanut was kicked on the 28th of June. We were asleep in lawn chairs, me, my mom, and my dad. We were asleep and we didn't even see or hear the horse until the dog saw the horse. Peanut barked and that horse was right up to Peanut. Look, I love horses. It's her fault and not the horses. The horse turned around to run and kicked Peanut. Peanut, 3 days later died. Here's from the Premier Vet, the emergency vet. I quit calling the Sheriff's. I have many, many, many calls to the Sheriff's. The Sheriff keeps saying it is an Animal Control thing. We have a pending lawsuit against them for massive damage. She has up to 23 horses at a time at her house. I have videos and photographs that I can show you of trailers pulling up. She won't let them on her property because there are massive amounts of horses. 23 horses this day and my husband came home and he was screaming get your phone, get your phone. We don't have cameras everywhere. I don't want to live like that. So, get your camera, get your camera. I go outside and it was too late. I go out there. We had massive rain and these horses were cute. They were frolicking and having a ball in the mud in my back yard. My yard is destroyed. My mother with the Parkinson's, she has to pull into the back of my house because she can barely walk and it has to be flat. She can't come up the 6 steps. The only one that fell in the hole is me. That was embarrassing. The owner of the property is a Class X Felon who has a website designated to drive-by shootings, which he practices out of the hatch of the car. I have that information right here. I could go on and on. We have animal waste that has leaked ammonia into our pond. Our fish are dead. We re-did that whole pond. They said its okay ma'am, we're going to take care of this. The noise is a problem.
Roberta Schultz showed the Commission another picture.
Roberta Schultz said here is their fence they put up to keep their 23 horses off my property. As you see, the fence is laying on the ground. That is the way that the horse ran back today when you forgot your halter.
John Kiefner asked can we have that picture come around to be entered into the records?
Roberta Schultz said sir, I made copies for every one of you of everything I just said. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm nervous.
Barbara Peterson said there's no reason to be nervous. Roberta Schultz said well I'm hungry too.
Thomas White said you should have pizza.
Roberta Schultz said I love pizza.
John Kiefner asked do you have any other important points that you want to make since your times up?
Roberta Schultz said I want to get to the Kelly Franzen part. She's actually a lovely person that owned it before me. She had 4 horses, 4, and they were lovely. She was a lovely person. The house I bought was a foreclosure. I am so glad you took those because I spent a lot of time copying today.
Thomas White asked do you have one extra set for Staff? Roberta Schultz said I do.
John Kiefner said they can have one of these.
Barbara Peterson said they can have mine.
Roberta Schultz said no, I have copies. So, with Kelly Franzen, she was desperate to leave. Her husband, Paul, died within 6 months. He had cancer. She was desperate. We love them. They were friendly and nice. They started renting to the problem people. This went on. They couldn't come up with the money for a down payment, blah, blah, blah. Well, they can't come up with money to put up a fence that stands up either. So, the Franzens were lovely people. She was in a bind wanting to sell her property because her husband was dying. She had 4 horses and if they want to go back all these years and talk about blah, blah how many horses were there, well they're breaking the law. Plain and simple. It's a 6.81 acre. She doesn't even know where her property lines are. I had spent $3,000 having a Plat of Survey and everything. Look, before you buy a horse stable, you better know the laws and know the zoning. What the hell did they buy that property for and want to put a horse stable after you buy it? It's not zoned for that. Plain and simple, they put the cart before the horse. I'm done. Here's your halter.
John Kiefner said Mr. Chairman can I ask a question of the speaker? Chariman Stipan said would you go back to the podium for a second, please. Roberta Schultz said beep, beep, beep, I'm backing up.
John Kiefner asked how long have you lived at your current residence?
Roberta Schultz said we bought it in September of 16. Believe me when I tell you, if you're familiar with that property, it was destroyed. It was a foreclosure. It was robbed and looted. We have worked so hard and it's beautiful again. We have worked hard. We don't owe a dime on our house, thank you. Bought and paid for. Anyways.
John Kiefner said you answered my question, thank you.
Roberta Schultz said we take pride in our property. They do not. They have junk vehicles without tags or plates on. It's an s, h, i, t hole.
Chairman Stipan said ok, thank you.
Barbara Peterson said you did good.
Diane Banks introduced herself to the Commission. Billie and I, Billie will be speaking right after me, we are owners of property that's abutting to the property that's requesting the Variance from 6 horses to 18. We too were made aware of this situation via Certified Mail. We're here today to express our opposition to the Variance request because of its impact on our property, particularly the North Forked Creek, our watershed, which runs through our property. We are true environmentalists. You will realize after hearing us, I hope. Runoff water carrying the nutrients, pathogens, and bacteria from horse manure can transport them to our creek and contaminate this valuable water resource. With the average 1,000 pound horse producing 50 pounds of manure each day, the manure created by 18 horses on 6.9 acres triple the amount that's allowed by the Ordinance. This is toxic to the fish and other aquatic species in our creek. We have already seen algae blooms that result from such contamination in North Forked Creek. This reduces oxygen in the water and it kills fish. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much.
Billie Banks introduced herself. We live on the headwaters of North Forked Creek, which is a critically sensitive wildlife ECO system. We have seen more toxic algae blooms on the creek in the past few years. Open Lands Project, we invited them out to do surveys on our creek to inspect the fish species that live there. We've also done migrations ourself on the creek. We've found many unique species of fish, which is an indication of very clean streams. With the property in question, there is an intermittent stream that runs alongside the property in question that drains onto our property. We do not want toxic horse manure pouring onto our farmland from the horse yards. We won a landscaping and conservation award for rural wildlife preservation from the U.S. EPA and Chicago Wilderness. We participate in the Illinois Department of Conservation Illinois Acres For Wildlife program. We also rehabilitate state and federally protected wildlife on our farm as well. We have a potable water source that runs close to the stream behind the horse farm that is in question. We feel the overabundance of horses adjacent to our farm is seriously detrimental to the wildlife habitat and the aquatic ECO system of the headwaters of North Forked Creek. Please consider denial of this.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much. Would you care to rebut?
Lisa Anderson came back to the podium. First of all, I would like to address the halter. She trespassed onto my property to acquire this halter. I can tell you the exact horse it came from.
Both Lisa Anderson and Roberta Schultz were talking at the same time.
Chairman Stipan said excuse me both of you. We're not interested, we're here for a Zoning Case.
Lisa Anderson said my fencing was adequate until it was knocked down. I intentionally zipped it up with zip ties. My zip ties were cut and it was knocked down a second time. We have adequate space for the horses. Right at this moment in time, we have 9. They're all separated within 4 turnouts. 9 horses in 4 turnouts. We have 2 turnouts, 1 in the very front that is an acre and 1 in the very back which is an acre and a half. Then we also have an additional 6 turnouts that are separated. We have never had an issue with overcrowding of horses.
Chairman Stipan asked have you had 23 horses?
Lisa Anderson said never. The most we have ever had at one time was 18.
Chairman Stipan said ok, thank you. Does anyone else have any questions? No response.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much.
Roberta Schultz said can I ask a question? Just one question?
Barbara Peterson asked who's talking? Roberta Schultz said the main complainer.
Chairman Stipan said you may ask a question but you have to come down to the podium.
Roberta Schultz said absolutely.
Barbara Peterson said the main complainer.
Chairman Stipan said the case is currently resolved as far as the zoning goes so your question.
Roberta Schultz said my question would be that they have been in violation of so many things. Now that this has been denied, how long til she is made to remove the other horses?
Chairman Stipan said our Land Use Department will send out inspectors.
Roberta Schultz said she's home all day every day. I don't know what the problem with coordinating is.
Chairman Stipan said we don't want to get into this. Roberta Schultz said that's ok, that's ok.
Chairman Stipan said to answer your question, the Land Use Department will send out inspectors. If they need to have enforcement by the law.
Roberta Schultz said thank you sir, have a good night. They can come on my property and go in the back.
Chairman Stipan said if they need to have law enforcement, the inspectors will bring the Sheriff's Department.
Roberta Schultz said thank you.
9. Motion To Approve Variance For Maximum Number Of Animal Units Allwed In The A-2 Zoning District From Six (6) T0 Eighteen (18)
Roll Call Vote was taken. Motion failed 0-7.
RESULT: DEFEATED [0 TO 7]
MOVER: Thomas White, Vice Chairman
SECONDER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner
NAYS: White, Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhause
10. Ordinance Amending the Will County, Illinois Zoning Ordinance Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as Amended, for Zoning Case ZC-19-067, First Midwest Bank Trust #7052, Owner of Record, (Michelle Tracy 100% Beneficiary), Donald Cass Wennlund of Wennlund & Associates, Attorney, Requesting (M-19- 017) a Zoning Map Amendment from A-1 to I-1, for Part of Pin #18-13-08-300- 004-0000, in Green Garden Township, Commonly Known as 24405 S. LaGrange Rd., Frankfort, IL County Board District #2
The Village of Frankfort has requested that this case be tabled pending their 1.5 mile review.
Chairman Stipan said may I ask a question?
Lisa Napoles said yes.
Chairman Stipan said when was the Village of Frankfort notified of this case? Lisa Napoles said I believe they were first notified by the applicant in September. Barbara Peterson said September of 19.
Lisa Napoles said yes, 19.
Thomas White said that's adequate time.
Barbara Peterson said I would think so.
Chairman Stipan said they had adequate time to make their determination.
Lisa Napoles said yes.
John Kiefner asked can I ask a follow up question to this?
Lisa Napoles said yes.
John Kiefner said they reference in their denial or the request of denial that was emailed to us that they had a 2040 Comprehensive Plan. Do you know when that was approved?
Lisa Napoles said that was approved I believe within.
Janine Farrell said December 16th.
Lisa Napoles said yeah, December 16th.
John Kiefner asked and that is the basis why they want us to table, because of that newly adopted plan? It was indeed just adopted.
Chairman Stipan said in September of last year.
John Kiefner asked when did you say? Can you repeat when they approved that?
Lisa Napoles said the 2040 Plan, their new Comprehensive Plan was adopted December 16th of 2019.
John Kiefner said 2019, so less than a month ago? Lisa Napoles said yes, less than a month ago. Barbara Peterson said that's not our problem. Lisa Napoles said thank you.
John Kiefner said Mr. Chairman can I ask a procedural question?
Chairman Stipan said sure.
John Kiefner said I have come to the determination that I would want to see this case tabled. I think that the circumstances suggest it. Is it appropriate for me to ask for tabling at this time?
Chairman Stipan said sure, you make the motion.
John Kiefner made a motion to table the case. Roger Bettenhausen 2nd the motion. Motion failed 3-4. No's were Peterson, Carruthers, White, Mitchell.
John Kiefner said we tried Roger.
Barbara Peterson said he wants to see their 2040 Plan.
Thomas White said the table has already been heard. John Kiefner said it's done.
Lisa Napoles presented Zoning Case # ZC-19-067 which takes place in Green Garden Township.
This is an application for a Map Amendment from A-1 to I-1.
The applicant and owner is First Midwest Bank Trust # 7052, with Michelle Tracy 100% beneficiary. Representing the Trust in this case is Donald Cass Wennlund of Wennlund & Associates.
A landscaping business previously operated on the property. The applicant seeks to re-zone the improved portion of the property with the intent to divide that portion into a separate parcel and rent the property for uses permitted under I-1.
The subject parcel is located on South LaGrange Road in Green Garden Township. The current lot shown on the GIS aerial measures just over 55 acres in area.
The property is improved with an office building, greenhouses, outdoor storage bins, hoop houses and numerous small sheds.
The applicant previously operated Fawn Landscaping & Nursery Inc. on the property under a Special Use Permit, Zoning Case # 5441-S.
A Zone A Floodplain runs across the north portion of the parcel. There's also a wetland identified in the north central portion of the property.
The 11.95 improved acres in the southwest corner of the property are the subject of this Map Amendment.
The Zoning Map shows the property is zoned A-1.
The subject parcel borders A-1 parcels on the north, east and south, A-1 and E-1 properties on the west, and a utility easement for Commonwealth Edison at the northwest corner.
The proposed lot area measures 11.95 acres. The remainder of the parcel will retain A-1 Zoning.
Based upon the criteria that Staff and the Plan Commission are required by Ordinance to evaluate, Staff finds that there are existing industrial uses within the vicinity of the subject parcel and that these zoning uses within a 1.5 mile radius of the subject parcel include both I-1 and I-2 properties. The proposed new parcel has been improved with significant new structures and paving to make it unsuitable to refer to Agricultural use. The trend of development along South LaGrange Road has more intensive uses including Industrial.
The proposed Map Amendment is consistent with the Will County Land Resource Management Plan which recommends locating free standing industry within easy access to an arterial roadways.
It is also consistent with the Green Garden Comprehensive Land Use Plan which allows light Industrial uses directly along major roadways.
This Map Amendment was approved by both the Green Garden Township and the Planning Commission and the Township Board of Trustee's.
Because the proposed parcel has already been developed, a LESA score was not calculated for this property.
Staff is recommending approval of the request.
Chairman Stipan asked any questions of Staff?
John Kiefner said I have a procedural questions I guess. This is regarding a previous conversation we have had about legal objections. The Village of Frankfort could file an objection because they're within a mile and a half of this property?
Lisa Napoles said yes.
John Kiefner said ok.
Chairman Stipan asked any other questions of Staff?
No response.
Chairman Stipan said thank you Lisa, I appreciate it.
Lisa Napoles said thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Stipan said I see Mr. Wennlund there in the audience. Are there any objectors or concerned citizens about this case?
No response.
Chairman Stipan said ok, thank you.
Cass Wennlund introduced himself. I have the applicants here with me tonight, Mr. and Mrs. Tracy are here as well as their Commercial Realtor. They're right up there in the top row. They've been trying to lease this property out. For those of you who are familiar with this property, it's operated many, many years as Fawn Landscaping. It's a family landscaping construction business. As you saw in the pictures, it's a fully developed property. They've run there for many years. They would have the Harvest Festivals in the Fall also. As what happens with some of us as we get older, health challenges arose for Mr. Tracy and they're not able to operate their landscape construction business anymore. They turned to their realtor to see if they could lease this out. Having a Special Use Permit limits solely to landscape contractors, made it impossible to rent out. So, that's why we're here tonight again. We're not in charge of the tabling, that was to your discretion. I'm not making a comment on that, but I would like to make a note of a couple of things. This property is just over a mile from the Village of Frankfort, their southern boundary. As is noted, the Green Garden Township Plan Commission and the Green Garden Township Board unanimously supported this. They told the owners that this is where they want those type of uses. I would also note that just about 620 feet north of here, it's noted in Janine's report, there was a re-zoning to I-1 for Sunset Sewer and Water in 2016 to which the Village didn't file a legal objection. Additionally, I was here October, if you may remember, for that Sunset Sewer and Water property and there was a Special Use Permit granted to which this Commission also voted to allow heavy equipment sales and rentals on that parcel, 620 feet closer to the Village of Frankfort to which they didn't file a legal objection. Again, this property is within Green Garden Township. We're trying to keep it so this property is not idle to provide some income to this family since they can no longer operate their business. That's what we're trying to do. As you can see, we don't have any neighbors here objecting and we have the full and complete support of the unincorporated area, the Township in which we file our application in which we're sitting and in which we'll operate our business. We ask for approval.
Chairman Stipan said thank you. Does anyone have any questions of Mr. Wennlund?
No response.
Chairman Stipan said thank you, sir.
Chairman Stipan said there are no objectors to this case so I would entertain a motion.
11. Motion To Approve A Map Amendment From A-1 To I-1
Motion passed 7-0.
RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner
SECONDER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner
AYES: White, Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhausen
12. Ordinance Amending the Will County, Illinois Zoning Ordinance Adopted and Approved September 9, 1947 as Amended, for Zoning Case ZC-19-077, LG Ranch, LLC, Owner of Record, (Luis Guzman 100% Beneficiary) Luis Guzman, Agent, Thomas Osterberger of Kavanagh, Grumley and Gorbold LLC, Attorney, Requesting (S-19-025) Special Use Permit for Ancillary Liquor Service in Conjunction with Allowed Agritourism Uses, (S-19-024) Special Use Permit for Rural Events, (S-19-026) Special Use Permit for a Landscaping and Lawn Maintenance Business, for Pin #30-07-01-200-028-0000, in Joliet Township, Commonly Known as 2225 Maple Road, Joliet, IL, County Board District #8
Marguerite Kenny presented Zoning Case # ZC-19-077, which takes place in Joliet Township.
The request tonight concerns a 10 acre, A-1 parcel where Rancho Los Guzman, a banquet hall facility, and a landscaping business currently operate on this property.
The owner is LG Ranch LLC where Luis Guzman is 100% beneficiary. The attorney representing Mr. Guzman is Thomas Osterberger of Kavanagh, Grunley and Gorbold LLC.
The applicant is requesting 3 separate Special Use Permits tonight. The first being a Special Use Permit for rural events, and I will define that shortly. Also a Special Use for ancillary liquor in conjunction with allowed agritourism use. Finally, a Special Use Permit for a landscaping and lawn maintenance business.
The Zoning Ordinance defines rural events as events and activities that are operated for profit and are not open to the general public. Some examples are wedding barns, event barns, and uses of an A-1 property to host weddings, parties, receptions, and other special events.
Staff has received some concerned citizen inquiries as to whether the request tonight regards a rodeo or lienzo charro. The Zoning Ordinance actually defines those within the entertainment and spectator sports, which by definition, it would be an outdoor major entertainment and spectator sport where entertainment spectator sport and events typically include theaters, cinemas, auditoriums, fairground stadiums, lienzo charros or rodeos, show barns, show grounds, race tracks, fall in this category. Basically, when activities are conducted primarily outside and there are more than 100 people, participants, exhibitors, or spectators present, that would be classified as sports and spectator entertainment sports use.
So, the applicant is actually requesting a banquet hall facility which is a separate use. Should he request a rodeo, that would be a separate Special Use request. The applicant is not requesting a rodeo. Its rural events for a banquet hall facility. You will see what he is proposing shortly.
The subject property is a flag lot with 10 feet of lot frontage. It is located along Maple Road, or U.S. Route 6.
The parcel was brought into compliance with a previous Zoning Case, granting a Variance for lot frontage.
Spring Creek runs along the northern portion of this property. As such, there is 100 year and 500 year floodplains and a 100 year floodway along the northern property line. Development in this area will be limited, based on those existing natural conditions.
The applicant has made improvements to the existing driveway along Maple Road and I will show you that right now. He has expanded it from being 10 feet wide, which is what his property is recorded to be, to 20 feet wide. As such, has installed gravel, signage, and speed bumps to keep the speed limit in this area to 10 mph. The adjacent properties to the east and west also use this driveway entrance off of Route 6. There are electric fences on the subject parcel. The applicant has provided the access code to that western property owner so she could access the property.
As such, Staff has recommended a condition that within 6 months of County Board approval, should they approve this development, the applicant produce proof of a perpetual easement agreement to allow the current driveway and basically the properties in the area to have an access on this roadway because it is 20 feet wide and it crosses several property lines.
Chairman Stipan said may I ask, are these all flag properties?
Marguerite Kenny said correct.
East Joliet Fire Protection District has not objected to the Special Use requests, however they will be required to submit approval for any building permits in the future development.
The Illinois Department of Transportation controls Route 6 and will need to approve any building permits in the future to ensure that access onto Maple Road meets the requirements and ensures maximum safety standards.
This section of Maple Road or Route 6, the speed limit is 50 mph.
The Special Uses for the rural events and the ancillary liquor are in conjunction with those uses and is requested to be the southern 6.19 acres. So, it's the southern portion of the property. This area is improved with 2 security gates, 2 parking lots, a gazebo, a fountain, a hoop house which the applicant wishes to demolish, a stable that contains horses which is a permitted use in the A-1 Zoning District, attached to a banquet hall. The northern gate serves as an entrance and the southern gate is the exit. The applicant has kind of directed traffic control through the property with the events. Staff will actually take a closer look upon the actual building permit phase with the number of parking spots and things of that nature.
The applicant also intends on expanding the banquet hall so it can accommodate for sprinkler systems, additional storage, and a kitchen so that it conforms to all required codes and regulations. The Health Department wants them to upgrade the existing kitchen on the property. In order to do so, they're going to have to build slightly onto the existing banquet hall. Building permits will be required for the addition.
The applicant also intends to have the hours of operation Friday through Sunday 4PM to 12AM. The estimated number of guests will be between 150 and 300 people.
A Change of Use Building Permit will be required to bring the banquet hall up to Commercial Code standards. Right now, it was built as an Ag Exempt building with the stable. In order to be able to have large events of a commercial nature, they have to meet commercial standards.
The applicant wishes to actually make a direct access point from the banquet hall to the restrooms. Currently they have to actually go through the stable all the way down the hallway to where they are located.
Looking at the Special Use request for the landscaping business, it will be located on the northern 3.81 acres. As with the previous Special Use request, commercial building codes, landscaping, screening, parking regulations will all be applicable during the Building Permit phases. As was previously mentioned with the floodplain and floodway, the size of the operation will be contained to a smaller portion just to stay outside of the floodway and floodplain.
The applicant is proposing a smaller landscaping business with only 4 employees. The hours of operation will be Monday through Friday, 7am to 5pm. This landscaping use has been in operation on this site for over 5 years. Within this time frame, Staff has not received a complaint for the operation of this business.
This side of the property is improved with its own security gate, a driveway, parking area for the employees, and 2 existing hoop houses which currently have open Building Permits that will need to be finished. However, the applicant is proposing to demolish these so that he can build an actual stick and frame structure to house his equipment for his landscaping business. As such, Building Permits will be required.
As with the previous Special Use request, Staff has recommended that a perpetual easement be recorded or shown to have been recorded to provide sufficient access for this use.
As with any outdoor storage, it must be screened from all property lines. As such, within Building Permits and Site Plans depending on the size of the building being required, we will definitely make sure that it adheres to all Codes and Ordinances within the County.
Looking at the Zoning Maps, Staff believes that the proposed use will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of neighboring parcels or impede normal development within the area. The banquet facility is not being a rodeo which is prominent within the area, it's a different feel. Also, with the parcel being surrounded by a mix of A-1 and I-2 Zoning Districts, both within the City of Joliet and unincorporated Will County, the southern property line being the more Industrial area, the banquet facility kind of offsets that. It would actually be occurring during off hours of the industrial uses. With the landscaping business being located along the northern property line, the fact that it has to use the same access drive along the industrial areas kind of creates that buffer.
More details regarding the Special Use criteria that was used for evaluation was provided in the packets that you received.
Staff has added conditions to each Special Use request to ensure the impacts, if they are negative, should be minimized. For example, within the Rural Events, Staff has included a condition regarding adherence to the Noise Ordinance. With any outdoor concerts or anything like that, it solely is related to the Rural Events, so weddings, any type of special event regarding an event barn will most likely be inside. If it's an outdoor concert or some type of music performance related to a rodeo that would be a separate Special Use or a Temporary Use Permit, so it would be an additional Zoning request.
For the ancillary liquor, Staff has recommended that they adhere to the Liquor Control Ordinance and apply for a Liquor License. They have applied for the Liquor License through the County Executive's office. So, the next step would be actually applying to the County Board to increase the number of Liquor Licenses and pursue the license officially be rewarded to them.
The landscaping business aspect Special Use, you will notice most of them are the normal landscaping conditions.
Staff is recommending approval of all 3 Special Uses with 8 conditions for the rural events, 4 conditions for the ancillary liquor, and 11 conditions for the landscaping and lawn maintenance business.
With that, this concludes Staff's analysis.
Chairman Stipan said thank you. Does anyone have any questions for Staff?
John Kiefner said I have 1 question. Do we know the exact date the Ag Exempt stable was built?
Marguerite Kenny said I believe the permit was opened in 2015, but I could be mistaken.
Chairman Stipan asked and the purpose of that question was?
John Kiefner said that's the piece of property, or the building, that would be used as the banquet facility. Obviously there would be a lot of inspections coming through, correct?
Marguerite Kenny said that is correct.
John Kiefner asked but it was built as an Ag Exempt building, wasn't it? Marguerite Kenny said that is correct.
Chairman Stipan asked any other questions of Staff?
No response.
Chairman Stipan said thank you, I appreciate it.
Thomas Osterberger introduced himself to the Commission. I agree with Margie's report. I believe it's accurate. To break it down, Mr. Guzman came into the office in 2017 and got a Special Use for the landscape on the south end. There was some conditions. As it happens sometimes, you get approval and you keep moving forward. He didn't satisfy the conditions. It was approved but then the County rightfully pulled it because he didn't meet those conditions. I don't think it was anything drastic, you have to finish it and make sure you comply with everything. So that was previously approved and I think it is appropriate. The unique part about this is it was rezoned so it's A-1, he has horses. The rural events, to me, is kind of a neat thing. We don't have enough of this kind of mixed use upper end stuff. I was lucky enough to be out in California in the wine area. They have a working vineyard. They have people come see it. They have restaurants. This is obviously not Napa Valley but it's a neat area and it's nice that people get to go back there and have their wedding or the quinceanara in a pretty setting. I don't really see anything in your Staff Report and our own review that we object to that should stop it. I hope you approve it, I think it's a great use.
Chairman Stipan said thank you.
Thomas Osterberger said the owner is here by the way.
Chairman Stipan asked does anyone have any questions?
No response.
Chairman Stipan asked are there any objectors or concerned citizens? Some people raised their hands.
Chairman Stipan said there's quite a few. The same rules will apply as earlier. I will give each of you 3 minutes to speak. I presume you have all signed in. Would you please come down here and line up? Please come down 1 at a time.
Ed King introduced himself to the Commission. I actually live in Ridgewood. I am the Assistant Pastor at Harmony Community Church which is butt to butt with his property. Our concerns are, and I appreciate the lady explaining things so thank you so much, safety. With all of the rodeos and different things in the area, our church has actually had to change services. I've almost hit 2 or 3 people on the black horses and they're dressed all in black. We can't have Sunday night service anymore. We've had to change different things even because of the noise. One place is a half of a mile away. I'm inside playing my guitar and amp and I hear boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I love music, it's all great. If I'm a half a mile away, he's going to be 15 acres. In my area, we have a lot of wedding things. Great, I love it. I love what you said about having some nice places to go and have some weddings and things. We were here first. Our church has 10-1/2 acres. I have been the Assistant Pastor for over 30 years. I grew up there. I worked when we put the gravel in and I was 15 years old. We've taken care of our property and cleaned the houses up that people threw the trash on. The traffic, we can't even come down Rosalind Avenue from Briggs Street because of the rodeo. If he has something on that side, how's people going to get to the church because Route 6 will be blocked off from the apartments?
Chairman Stipan said I understand he's not a rodeo.
Ed King said I said to the lady thank you very much for explaining that but that don't take care of the traffic that's going to come with the wedding. Have you ever seen big weddings?
Chairman Stipan said I understand sir.
Ed King said if you were like us, we take care of our property. We are working Pastors. I cut the grass myself to take care of our property and make sure it stays nice.
Chairman Stipan said yes.
Ed King said 15 acres away is not very far if you have a wedding even. The noise and the traffic. As a matter of fact, the gentleman, he's probably a really nice guy but his animals weren't on his property the last few weeks. I seen them in there today, but they were on Farrell Road the last few weeks. We don't want problems. We want people to take care of their stuff. We're trying to still have the freedom of religion. I can't blast my music and people are playing things so loud. There's several areas around there that you come out and you're like ok, what do I do? I can't even talk. We've had to change young people's things. You can't hear nothing.
Chairman Stipan said I would like to make 1 suggestion. Please call the County Land Use Department and have them send out an inspector with an audiometer. They will tone it down or give them a ticket.
Ed King said you should come and visit with me sometime when there's 5 or 6 County cops sitting there at the rodeo. Who do you want me to call?
Michael Carruthers said I have a question.
Ed King said I don't want to take up my 3 minutes.
Michael Carruthers said 5 years ago a doctor built across from your church there. How is he doing?
Ed King said say that again sir.
Michael Carruthers said he built across from your church on Rosalind. There was a doctor who built a home there.
Ed King asked across the street? Michael Carruthers said yes.
Ed King said the guy who lives across the street is sitting right up there and I don't know what you're talking about.
John Kiefner asked was it a different church?
Someone said there's no house there.
Ed King said there was another guy who bought some land and tried to put up a home. I guess he gave up on the 6 acres you allowed him to have. He's given up and moved away. I don't know what happened to him. So, in between our property and the corner property, is the Forest Preserve. Like I said, I'm not against anybody. It's just the traffic and the noise. You guys said the noise stuff yourself. I didn't even bring it up.
Chairman Stipan said you did bring it up as a matter of fact.
Ed King said she brought it up first that everybody would stay in their recommendations of it all.
Chairman Stipan said I'm not arguing with you at all. All I want to say is that it was brought up at this meeting that the noise was sometimes louder. I'm just saying that we do have corresponding laws about that. If you try calling Land Use, not the Sheriff's Department, because that's not their job. Call the Land Use and they'll come over with an audiometer. If the noise is too loud and they can determine who it is, they'll write them a ticket.
Ed King said I appreciate you listening to me sir. If you've ever seen our property, we try so hard to keep it nice.
Chairman Stipan said I have seen your property as a matter of fact.
Ed King said we try hard. The church people try hard.
John Kiefner asked is the church on Route 6 to the west of the.
Ed King said no sir, our church is actually on Rosalind Avenue butt to butt with the property. Does that help?
John Kiefner said yes.
Ed King said I thank you so much for listening to me. Barbara Peterson said anytime.
Chairman Stipan said thank you.
Cliff Scholp introduced himself to the Commission. I am the general manager of Norwalk Tank Company. Our property is directly south of the property in question. I want to go on record to support business development in our area. I like the idea of having people around our business. He is going to be operating during hours that we're not there so we have no conflict with that. He's been a good citizen in the past. I do acknowledge their concerns with noise. That has to be addressed, possibly keeping music inside. The traffic, I have not considered. He's going to be operating at times that I'm not there. I support growth in that area and that's about it.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much, sir.
Tammy Jones introduced herself to the Commission. On October 15th, I believe, there was an article that I wrote on Rage about the rodeo that is located on Rosalind at 18225 Briggs Street. The noise, oh my God, is so overwhelming that you cannot even hear. If you put another rodeo or another event, the noise that comes from everywhere will make it impossible to live there. Every Sunday I have to leave and go to the movies because they violate their permit. They have a Permit, I have a copy of it. They had 11 days to do their thing and they've been doing it every Sunday and on holidays. The traffic is so bad. You call the Will County Police and they tell you to call Land Use. You call Land Use and they tell you to call the Will County Police. They gave us the run around so long that I had to go to the newspaper and put the article in because they said they were going to bring the noise thing and do the thing but oh, they can't afford that. There's all kinds of excuses. Megan Fran was one of the people. Ron Pullman was one of the people. There was all of those individuals. They didn't do anything for us. That's why I went to the Herald News and made a news article about the noise. It's so overwhelming that you can't take it. I live on Demmond Street.
Chairman Stipan said let me understand you. Are you saying that the applicant was the one that made the noise or someone else?
Tammy Jones said the rodeo. La Herradura rodeo is the one that had the music from the concerts they had. They have a permit for 11 concerts. They get them from the Land Use. A Special Use. I got a copy of it. All you guys can get this from the Land Use. All you have to do is put in a Freedom of Information Act and get a copy of the permit that they give. Nevertheless, they violate it all the time. It's so loud, you can hear it at Silver Cross Hospital. You can go up to the new Silver Cross and hear the noise that far. That's how loud the bands are, the live bands. They have these new machines and they have 19 speakers standing up on top of each other, all stacked up. Sir, believe me.
Chairman Stipan said I believe you.
Chairman Stipan was trying to talk more but Tammy Jones was just talking over him.
Tammy Jones said over there, it's going to be even worse. Sunday church, you can't even enjoy church because the music's so loud. This is America, right? Everybody should have time to enjoy their property. We can't enjoy our property. They should not get a permit for that. They are a rodeo, not a concert hall. I've been living there since 1995. All of a sudden now they have these Special Permits to have these concerts and make more money. I don't think they're even paying taxes on them because they're so undercover. I'm just frustrated because I keep hearing everyone say go to Land Use, they're going to help you. Well, they're not. They're going to tell you, oh, they said they didn't do it. Oh no, they didn't do this. With all the tragedy in our minds, we deal with everything. They're not even going to understand what we're going through. They keep ignoring us. The Police ignore us because they're getting paid to work. If you follow Chapter 93 of the Noise Ordinance it states that no residence shall disturb the peace, but they still do.
Chairman Stipan said let me tell you something. By being at this public meeting and stating what you're stating, especially seeing as we have a couple of.
Tammy Jones said yes sir.
Chairman Stipan said County Board Members.
Tammy Jones said I see Megan Fran right over there. She's right there. I know her personally. I know a lot of them because I've been talking to them.
Chairman Stipan said we have a couple of County Board Members here.
Tammy Jones said whoever I talked to. I talked to Mr. Brooks. I've talked to everybody. I've talked to Ron Pullman, State's Attorney's Office Kevin Meyer. I've talked to Tom, the ex-chief. I've talked to Megan Fran. I've talked to everybody. The new guy they gave me, Marco Tyler. I've talked to everybody. Nobody helped us until I went to the Herald News and put that article in the paper because nobody seemed to care about the community around them. It's so loud. The microphone was louder than this. I mean it magnifies. It's so loud you can hear it in your house. You have to leave. I want you to deny them to get the Special Use Permits because they don't deserve it by having music that loud. It's not right.
John Kiefner said Miss Jones if I could ask Staff a question as it pertains to your comments. She has complaints about neighboring properties having these concerts. If these 3 Special Uses were permitted on the applicant's property, would they be able to apply for these concerts?
Marguerite Kenny said it would be a Temporary Use Permit, but they would be also conditioned because it's a Temporary Use. It would not be permitted as a right.
John Kiefner said so they could not have these concerts as a condition of what we're granting for weddings?
Marguerite Kenny said correct. If you notice, there is a condition in there limiting it only to rural events regarding the wedding barns, event barns, etc.
John Kiefner said I can’t do anything about the current one, but I am at least going on record here hearing that they won’t be able to have these concerts that are already being bothersome to you.
Tammy Jones said if they do both of them, then we have a 113, that's another Land Use problem.
John Kiefner said let me stick with this one. Tammy Jones said they're loud too, oh God. Kimberly Mitchell said don't give up.
Tammy Jones said I am, I'm going to get a copy of the Permit. I don't want to be denied. What they're doing is not right. It's not right for the community. We're suffering over there. Nobody's listening to us. Land Use don't listen. Megan Fran hasn't listened to me. I called her personally. She told me they said they cancelled. I have copies of all of their events and everything they have. She doesn't do her job, I'm going to be honest about that. I've talked to Tyler Marcum about it and Mr. Pullman that she doesn't go out there and check. They keep saying she is supposed to go out there and inspect. She says I can't access the property. I can't do this or that. She has all the reasons why she can't do her job. She's always saying well, we can't access. She's not even going out checking and making sure the stuff is right. The loud noise thing, they don't even use that. They don't even use it. We asked for it and we requested it. It's been 2 years, 2 years of suffering.
Chairman Stipan said may I make a comment?
Tammy Jones said yes, sir.
Chairman Stipan said the very first condition, if you look up there and read that, that says that we have the right to go in with our County inspectors and with the Sheriff's Department. We pass that on almost every Variance.
Barbara Peterson said every Special Use.
Chairman Stipan said yes, every Special Use. So, they have the right.
Tammy Jones said well they're not doing it because the Police work for them. It's on the Permit. They work there and they get paid for the events. If we call them, they tell us the Police are already on site. They're getting paid there, but they don't listen. They're sitting there thinking because they're getting money from the rodeo, they don't care about the citizens. It's not right. They shouldn't be able to have a Land Use Permit for special events. They shouldn't be able to get one until they follow the rules and turn the music down. It's not right for the community. The poor animals got to listen to that loud noise. I got it on my phone if you want to hear it.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much. Barbara Peterson said thank you.
Tammy Jones said thank you guys for listening.
Kim Berez introduced herself to the Commission. Although I was not served a notice of this at my house, which the petitioner knows my address, he has come uninvited and unaided to my house. I was served at my former address from the 90's when I bought the property that I own. It has the largest border next to the property in question. That is a hay field for me. I'm not able to get to my hay field because there is, and you can see on the little diagram that he's put a fence on my property that goes there plus, he's put a gate that he has referred to, across. I'm supposed to have the code to it but I never have the current code. I can't even get hay off of my hay field anymore. Twice, I have had people go there with the equipment and not be able to get in there with the gate. I can't even get to my property. That's just one thing. Secondly, the noise is ridiculous. I've called people and said what the hell is going on there?
Chairman Stipan asked from this property? Kim Berez said from where I live. Chairman Stipan said where is the noise.
Kim Berez said I am in the crotch of tuba music every weekend. I have a migraine every weekend. Even in the night time, I have to close my windows. Sometimes it goes on until 3am. He does have music there already. He already has weddings there. They're not as loud as the other ones. I have one right across the street from me. 2 years ago I wanted to retire to my property over there which already the Forest Preserve took part of it, but I still have almost 12 acres. It's only going to get louder. It says on his application there will be no music, no sound. Who has weddings with no sound? They have a stable across the street from me that they built and they have events there. They're either DJ's or live bands. That's not what I really wanted to talk about. I can hear all of them. They're all around me. It's my life every weekend. I have a migraine until it turns winter. By the terms of this, it says there's going to be 43,000 cars per year on the driveway of the flag lot to Route 6, which is near the corner of Farrell and 6. Already, there was an overturned car accident there recently. I just narrowly avoided an accident where there were 4 rodeo type people there and they all got out of the cars with a can of beer. With the Liquor Licenses, a bartender can cut someone off after they're drunk. These events don't have that in place. They just keep serving and people are so drunk. They're always in front of my house, cans and bottles of alcohol and near accidents. Anyway, my concern about the zoning is, are there still going to be horses on this property? Is it still a stable? Like I said, I didn't get this at my house.
Marguerite Kenny said yes., there are horses.
Kim Berez said that means that there's going to be 6.2 acres allotted to horses. Because he has 10 acres altogether, he's allowed unlimited horses, which I don't agree with, but that's the rule.
Chairman Stipan said 1 horse per acre.
Kim Berez said ok, but if that 6 acres is also a wedding venue, then how can he have the horses and a banquet hall on the same 6 acres? How's he going to build a structure in the back for another business that is on a floodplain?
Chairman Stipan said ma'am, that's not our concern. We are concerned strictly with zoning.
Kim Berez said that pertains to zoning because you're asking to have it all different ways. You're asking to have it Ag. You're asking to have it Industrial. You're asking to have it Commercial. In the same parcel, you're asking to do all these different things. The Norwalk Tank sold the property to him, so of course they're going to come and recommend it. I was in an actual Court where the Judge said to George Pierson, when he was alive, way back at least 15 years ago that were he to apply for zoning now to have that business, there would have to be an Industrial Park. They would not allow it on Maple Road. This sort of seems like the same sort of thing. You just denied somebody to have a bunch of horses on 6 acres. So, now we're going to have that same 6 acres also occupied by a wedding venue. It's not Agritourism. I have definitions from 4 very reliable sources plus Wikipedia what Agritourism consists of. It does not consist of an inside wedding.
Chairman Stipan said ma'am. If you check our Zoning, our County Zoning laws, this falls within the Agritourism in our County Zoning laws. Our Ordinances.
Kim Berez said I didn't have a chance to check anything because I wasn't given a notice.
Chairman Stipan said I understand but you're making a blanket statement that's not correct.
John Kiefner said I would like to ask a couple questions.
Kim Berez was still talking so both were talking at the same time.
John Kiefner said let me finish this up, we're well over in time. Your 1777 Maple Road address, is that is where you live?
Kim Berez said yes.
John Kiefner said the hayfield that you say you're denied access to.
Kim Berez said that's precisely to the west.
John Kiefner asked are they land locked? You don't have access to your own property?
Kim Berez said I have.
John Kiefner asked are they land locked? Can you access the hay fields from your property?
Kim Berez said it would be land locked except I have an easement through his property through my property.
John Kiefner said you have an easement on that property.
Kim Berez said so I don't know if that qualifies for land locked or not. John Kiefner said you are land locked but you are granted an easement.
Kim Berez said I also own property in the front next to the driveway and on the corner of Farrell and Route 6, a couple of acres with a house that I rent. If you want decent people to live there, you can't make them listen to bong, bong, bong, bong, so loud that they can't enjoy life. And the traffic. And the septic system.
John Kiefner said let me speak to this case and I will ask Staff. Is it possible to have a condition on here that requires the easements for land locked people? They do talk about the driveway.
Marguerite Kenny said it is on all 3 Special Use conditions. Staff felt that was important that it actually be conditioned.
John Kiefner said the original 10 foot frontage has now become 20 foot with multiple uses for the driveway.
Kim Berez said as far as I know going out to Maple Road, IDOT has permitted an Agricultural use for that driveway. It's very close to Farrell and Route 6. These are 43,000 by his own estimate, cars per year.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much for your testimony. We've been very lenient. I hope you understand, everybody is going way over the 3 minutes that you are allowed to talk. We're going to have to close it down because we're getting past the point that we can stay here. Folks, please try to do it quickly.
Jean Haas introduced herself to the Commission. I am going to read what I have due to time constraints. I border his property on his north end. I live on a farm. This farm this year is going to be 100 years into our family. We've enjoyed rural life. I live right next to the church next door. We get along great. They keep their music down and everything's fine. I represent my farm and my neighbors. We are very concerned. I feel like the things that are going on now for the re-zoning is something that I would consider if I did this because I have a farm to manage. So, I have to think of these things. I worry about the traffic. The traffic after these events, and I say there's like 6 loud events of rodeos, Agritourism. 6 loud events within 2 miles of us. Isn't there a restriction on all of this music and all this noise and all of this traffic? Could you just imagine living next door to this or having like 6 boom boxes in your house all playing different music?
Chairman Stipan said I understand what you're saying, but let me turn it around. How about if somebody restricted on how you could use your farm?
Jean Haas said I want you to know this. I had to replace my burglar alarm siren and they told me I could only have a siren that was 60 decibels by State law, and I complied with that. Why can't we do that with the music that we have outside? I've called the Sheriff's office they say call Land Use. Land Use says call the Sheriff's office. We can't do anything. We have a permit that they can go to 10:00 or midnight or whatever. We have children in this neighborhood that need to go to sleep. People need to go to work. Our houses are inundated with this music. Our windows are shaking. You have no idea. When these things come out, well not his event, but the one's around me and this will only add to it. When they have liquor and horses, there is an accident. You have a picture of a horse accident from somebody who was intoxicated and hit a horse and left him. When they get out of these events, watch out because they drag race up and down the street. You have no control of Route 6, Rosalind Avenue, anywhere. It's just paranoia. Once you call the cops, they're gone. This is it. This is only going to add to this information, all of this.
Chairman Stipan said again, I'm not arguing to be arguing. If you turn around and say ok, I own a farm and I'm going to operate this way. I own a farm right next to you and I operate in opposition to your farm, don’t care where the water goes, don't care about a lot of things, you're going to be very, very angry. But, you can't blame everybody for what I'm doing.
Jean Haas said no, I understand that.
Chairman Stipan said what you're saying is you're putting this applicant in the same group as all the other loud noisemakers.
Jean Haas said because he's got all the common elements of everything here. We have the traffic, we have the liquor, we have the horses, we have outside events.
Kimberly Mitchell said it's not outside.
Chairman Stipan said it's not outside.
Jean Haas said I hear his music from my house. It's indoors and I hear it. You can't stop it. I mean, you just can't stop it. I have an online business for videos. I cannot do my video in my own house because of the noise. This is only going to add more to it. Believe me, I hear it. Even though it's inside and even though it's down, you can feel the bass. I comply with whatever the Zoning or whatever the farm, I've lived here for most of my adult life. We had horses boarded.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much. Jean Haas said ok.
Thomas White said we're hearing a lot about rodeos that have nothing to do with this case.
Chairman Stipan said I've tried to explain it to the woman right there that you can't lump everything together. Now, are you going to talk about the loud noise or the rodeos in the neighborhood? Or, are you going to talk about this Zoning Case?
Willie Seals introduced himself to the Commission. I want to talk about this Zoning Case.
Chairman Stipan said thank you.
Willie Seals said I was the Pastor of the Harmony Church for quite a few years. We live in an area where there's homes and families. We all want to live a normal life. We want to go home and get the sleep and rest that we need to get up and go to work the next day and just have our families all happy and with us enjoying our lives. Sometimes it's hard to do that with the surrounding circumstances. A lot of people have already hit on a lot of things that I was concerned about. They was talking about a lot of drinking and a lot of loud noises, reckless driving. I know I was standing out in front of the church and there was 2 guys racing down Rosalind Avenue. Rosalind Avenue comes to a "T" with Farrell. I told the guy that was next to me they're not going to be able to stop, they were going way too fast. Right out in the field, they just missed our church. There's no restrictions to how drunk they can get. I was driving home from church one night and I came up on a black horse and a guy on the horse dressed in black. They were out in the middle of the road and I just barely was able to miss him. I was so grateful that I didn't hurt that horse or him.
Chairman Stipan said or yourself.
Willie Seals said or ourself, yes.
Chairman Stipan said please, I understand what you're saying but would you get to this case. This individual case is what we're here about. We're not hearing about all the rodeos that are causing problems.
Willie Seals said ok. What I'm trying to point out and I think some others are trying to point out is this is going to add to the problem. You know what I'm saying? There's going to be more drinking, more drunk people riding horses, and it's going to create a bigger traffic problem. I don't want to hurt somebody. I don't want to hit somebody that's in the road drunk. I was coming home from church and there was a car stopped and they were all drunk. There was a lady standing, and they had the sunroof pulled down, and she was just vulgar. Anyway, these things just add to it and that was my concern. Another thing is, we have picnics at the church sometimes. One time we was having a picnic and there was a bull that got away from the rodeo.
Chairman Stipan said excuse me, sir. I'm going to stop you right there. I don't mean to be rude but you're not discussing this case. You're discussing all types of things that happen in the neighborhood. This case is what we're hearing. I know you're unhappy and frustrated with the neighbors because of rodeos and things like that around you. That has nothing to do with what we're doing here. We're hearing the Zoning on one particular case, which you say is going to add to it and cause more people to be drunk and riding on horses. This is a wedding venue. It's not a rodeo. It's not a drinking event. I don't know about you, but I've been to many, many weddings where I've never had a drink. In fact I drink very little. I do have an occasional drink but I'm always mindful today of what's going to happen if you get on the road when you've had a drink. All I'm saying is, please stick to this case. We're going on almost 9:30 and we haven't resolved this case because everybody wants to talk about what's going on in their neighborhood, but not this case.
Someone blurted out something from the audience.
Chairman Stipan said excuse me, sir. You are not allowed to speak from up there. You may come down and speak at the podium like everyone else has or you may leave.
Willie Seals said I've said all that I need to say. Chairman Stipan said thank you sir.
Willie Seals said you guys have a blessed evening. Barbara Peterson said oh, big boss is coming.
John DePue said I live on Tamarack Drive, less than a mile from the entrance to the property. This case is not just about this case. This case is about where we live and what we have to put up with. Adding one more thing to it is part of the problem. Because then there's another thing and another thing. What we have is uninhabitable.
Chairman Stipan said I understand your frustration but once again, stop and think. If you do something that causes.
John DePue said if I was harming my neighbors, yes.
Chairman Stipan said if you do something that causes your neighbor's harm.
John DePue said you have ineffective enforcement. You have conditions that are contributing to worsening the livability of the neighborhood. It's not right that you consider just one little thing. You have to take the whole thing into consideration. That's what Planning is about. You're ignoring that if you don't take recognition of what else is going on.
Chairman Stipan said I'm sorry that you feel that way. May I address the Chairman of the County Board? Would you care to come down and make a statement about what we're trying to do here? Just so people understand that we're not trying to cause problems to the community. We're trying to resolve problems. One of the ways that we do that is proper zoning.
County Board Chair Denise Winfrey said I'm happy to make a statement. I don't know that it will be effective at this point. The sentiment in the room is high enough that I don't believe people can really hear what's being said. The Case before us tonight is about basically, a rustic banquet hall. The gentleman in question would like to have a rustic banquet hall and would like to do weddings, banquets, quinceanaras, that kind of thing. It's not rodeos. I understand the rodeos are an issue. Those are certainly issues. Nobody can argue that. All along Oaklawn, Briggs, along Farrell, Rosalind, all those areas, that is an issue. That is apart from this case. It does add to the livability of the area as the gentleman just said. Certainly this one will too. The music, the people will be enclosed on this particular venue. I don't believe that it's right to punish this particular person because of other people's bad behavior. I do believe there's an opportunity for us, as a County, to be more conscientious on the noise standards and of control of traffic along Briggs or Rosalind or the area around. That's a separate thing from what this gentleman has applied for. What he is asking for is basically to operate a rustic banquet hall. It's a place to have weddings. It would be no different than if you were on Richards Street at the Victorian Manor or any other banquet hall. That's what it is. For that, I would absolutely support him having the hall. At the same time, I would support us being more conscientious in terms of how we manage. Sheriff's Police and Land Use controlling the noise, controlling the traffic, controlling the drinking in the streets, controlling the drag racing in the area around there, north and south of this area. That does need to be worked on.
Chairman Stipan said we agree entirely with that statement. The problem is, we have no ability to do that.
County Board Chair Denise Winfrey said that cannot be managed tonight. What can be managed tonight is the Zoning Case before you, which I do support.
John Kiefner asked would you entertain a question from me?
County Board Chair Denise Winfrey said certainly.
John Kiefner asked do you, after hearing the concerns here, have the authority to pursue their complaints outside the scope of what we're hearing? You yourself, as County Board Chair, do you have the authority to see that these complaints go further and are heard somewhere else.
County Board Chair Denise Winfrey said they will be heard. We have Land Use people here tonight. We'll be speaking with them tomorrow. Those people will be notified as well as the Sheriff Police. Although, the bulk of it does go to Land Use. There are some restrictions around noise. There are restrictions around the traffic. All of those things, the traffic piece, the liquor in the streets, the drag racing that goes to the Sheriff. So, they have to be reported at the time they happen to the Sheriff. It has to be specific. It cannot be hey, they're doing it again. It needs to be, I took a license plate and this person is drag racing so the Sheriff actually has something to work from. Those kind of things. I'm not saying people have not made those reports, I'm sure that they have. But that is what has to happen. Tonight is about this gentleman's banquet hall.
Chairman Stipan said Commissioner Winfrey, thank you so very much on your wonderful explanation so the people can understand we're not here as the opposition. All we're trying to do is hear 1 case.
County Board Chair Denise Winfrey said I believe people do understand that, but I believe the frustration level is high enough that people are using the opportunity to be heard about their frustration even though it is not part of this case. They are frustrated.
Chairman Stipan said I do agree with that. Thank you very much.
Thomas White left the meeting at 9:27 PM.
Chairman Stipan said due to the time constraints we are now down 1 Commissioner who has to leave. If you're going to speak, can you please do it in a very precise manner?
Dionne Wright introduced herself to the Commission. I'm a resident of the Fairmont community. Miss Winfrey, she pretty much summed it up. I just want to state for the record that they're going to be building a highway through Fairmont going towards that area and I'm just concerned about the traffic and the drinking. That's pretty much what my standpoint is with a lot of other residents in the Fairmont community. We've been fighting an uphill battle about this highway that they want to build in our community. Now you have liquor and the traffic with the truck stop also in the same area surrounding us. Miss Winfrey did a wonderful job and I just want you guys to deny the liquor part. Basically, drunk driving and 55 mph do not mix. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said I understand, from what I read in the report, this gentleman has put in speed bumps to stop the people from speeding.
Dionne Wright said that's through his property, that's not outside on Route 6 from what I've been hearing all night.
Chairman Stipan said once this property is exited, you're talking about that.
Dionne Wright said yes, because I'm on my way to Walmart and I take Farrell Road. They go through the stop signs. The horses, they don't move for us in cars. They own the roads and it is scary with my daughter in the car. That's my only concern about the public safety with the drinking and the speed limits in those areas. We're surrounded by more traffic.
Chairman Stipan said we, on this Board, have been living in this County for so long, we remember when Farrell Road was empty.
Dionne Wright said yes, sir. I grew up here. I'm from that area. It's fine but it's just a big concern with the drinking and the speed limits to the surrounding areas. They're going from this area to that area and they do not stop for cars on the horses and drinking. Thank you.
Chairman Stipan said thank you very much.
A gentleman introduced himself from Prima Express at 2221 Maple Road. I am directly south from the ranch. As a business owner, even if we don't have any business together, I didn't sell anything to him, I support his business. So, I support my neighbor. He's been a good neighbor. We operate from 7 to 5pm so when these events are going to be happening, we are not going to be in our place. I feel bad about the people in Joliet hearing the music and everything, but for us it's very important to be quiet. I believe he's doing some events on that property. Usually we come in and we sleep 10 hours and we need quiet. So far, we haven't had any issues.
Chairman Stipan asked Mr. Osterberger would you care to speak?
Thomas Osterberger said I would, very quickly. Mr. Guzman is here. This Case came about because I was here with Staff at a hearing with Land Use or the Plan Commission, I forgot what it was, and his name came up because there was a problem with the rodeo. When I contacted Luis, he said people have to stop associating me with the rodeo. I said well that's fine, but we have to get in and, if you're going to have events here, it has to meet Building Codes and we have to do everything right. Everybody knows about the problem with the rodeos. This isn't a rodeo. I have great sympathy but we can't say we're not going to do another piece of zoning, we're not going to issue another liquor license. There's an opportunity here. Obviously, nobody's talked about the landscaping. There's an opportunity to take this facility and use it for weddings, quinceanaras and other events. It's a real asset. Luis, could you come down? There is one issue that hasn't been addressed. I'm sure Miss Mitchell wants to understand how horses come into play. People aren't riding around on these horses. There's not 16 year old Mexican girls who are having their quinceanara out on the horse with a bottle of beer. That's not happening here. With respect to the sound, we have to enforce all of the Ordinances. I don't know what the rodeos are doing but if I'm 1/4 of a mile away and I can hear them, it's a violation. That's not Mr. Guzman. If you could, just explain the events that you want to do and who the customers are. If you know anything about what's going on in the area, please share it because there are a lot of complaints.
Luis Guzman introduced himself. I hear the music as well. I built this building. I am the owner. I am a carpenter by trade. I put a lot of detail into this building. It's not a regular barn. It's not a barn that's falling down that you see a lot. It's beautiful. I don't know if the pictures really does justice to it. We're not going down Rosalind. I understand the worry because of the church. I know there have been many incidents with horses. Nobody boards at my place except my horses. I don't allow anybody else's horses on there. At the events, when we have had them, I had my 40th birthday this past year and I celebrated it there, all my horses are chained up so that way no young kid can open the door and have access to where the horses are at. I take care of them. There's stables. They have a chain and they have a code. Only my cowboy, the guy who takes care of the horses and feeds them, has the code to each door.
Kimberly Mitchell asked they're not involved in the.
Luis Guzman said not at all, absolutely nothing. The party is inside. I am a builder, like I said, I'm a carpenter by trade. The ceilings are insulated. The interior walls are insulated. Everything is fully insulated to where no noise. I do talk to Norwalk. I told them you might see me in your camera every once in a while. I go out and check. I drive in the front to where Norwalk is at. Norwalk is in front of me. There's about 25 feet tall of berm. You can't even see Route 6 from my property. To make sure that you can't hear any noises, I bought a noise reader. I respect all of my neighbors. She said she doesn't have a code to get in, she does have a code to the gate. The reason I put the gate in was because at night time, since I'm in the back, people tend to drive back there because they're curious to see my property because it's beautiful. I have to lock it. My horses are there. I have valuable stuff there. She is not landlocked in, she has 15 feet.
Thomas Osterberger said let's be clear. She has an easement and she has the right to get in without a gate. That issue is part of the Special Use. She does have to put a code in, if it doesn't work, you have to change that.
Luis Guzman said when I purchased the property in 2013, she had to drive into the property to get to her property. Now, I made it to where the easement's at, plus there's another 15 feet separating me from Norwalk which I offered to clean for her when we had the dozers there. She didn't want to spend the money to clean the 15 feet.
Thomas Osterberger said she has the right to get access. That's not an issue there. Part of the Special Use, that's what it is.
Luis Guzman said she always has had a code to it. My last text to her, and I could read it to you, but she never answered. I asked her would you be willing to rent me the parcel to put my horses out because you haven't bailed your hay. No answer. I've tried to be nice. The horse lady on the side, I mean the dog lady, my neighbor, does live there onsite. I get along with her really well. She wasn't here tonight because she didn't want to get involved between us. She agrees with it, I can show you texts as well. I'm a good neighbor. I've been there for a long time. She lives there and if she had a problem with me she would have come today.
Thomas Osterberger said the other thing that we discussed with Staff, because it is A-1, horses are allowed her and there are horses. The hope is that he is going to build his home here.
Luis Guzman said they're beautiful weddings. We're not trying to do a "mickey mouse" wedding. I don't want to do a rodeo either. That's the first thing I said at the table. It's not a rodeo. I just wanted to make sure that everyone's clear, it's not a rodeo. Usually weddings are Fridays and Saturdays. Nobody gets married on a Sunday usually, nobody gets married on a Sunday. I control it. It's my facility. I built it for my family. I didn't build it so guys could be walking around drunk. I have a 13 year old daughter.
Chairman Stipan said thank you, sir.
Tammy Jones asked can I say one more thing, please?
Chairman Stipan said you're welcome to ask a question, one more. Come down here to do so, please.
Barbara Peterson asked didn't she talk already? Chairman Stipan said yes. One more question. John Kiefner said he was very accommodating. Michael Carruthers said yes.
Tammy Jones said I just want to say, this is not about the rodeo, the rodeos are fine. Rodeos are a beautiful thing. The horses are a beautiful thing. It's just the events that they have at the rodeos. It's not about the rodeo itself being built or the venue being built, it's about the noise from the party they have after the event because they do serve liquor. They do get drunk. They do play loud music. It's not about the rodeo. It's not about getting business. It's about the noise. When they have weddings, their weddings are different from our weddings. They have loud charro bands and live music. It's different.
Chairman Stipan said did you hear this gentleman? It has nothing to do with a rodeo.
Tammy Jones said I just wanted everyone to know it's not about the rodeo. Everybody keeps saying rodeo, rodeo, rodeo. No, it's about the event the rodeo is having. The rodeos are fine. The rodeo has been there since the 70's. It's beautiful. I love the horses. I pet them when they ride by. On Sundays, it's a different thing.
Kimberly Mitchell said the concerts and the live music? Tammy Jones said yes ma'am.
Chairman Stipan said thank you.
Someone in the public said I have a question.
Chairman Stipan said I'm sorry, no. It's time to vote. We've been on this case for an hour. I think that everybody's had an opportunity to speak. Mr. Brooks, did you want to speak? There's another County Board Member who I know very well. He's very, very good at taking care of his community. Anymore questions, please direct them to Staff tomorrow. Call their office. Thank you very much.
John Kiefner said Mr. Chairman can I ask a question of Staff about the conditions attached?
Chairman Stipan said quickly.
John Kiefner said I'm seeing on the conditions for the Special Use Permit for rural events, like 6, 7, and 8. If they are in violation once or repeatedly, would this Zoning become terminated? What would be the enforcement if they are starting to violate these?
Janine Farrell said I can speak to that. Let’s say they were to violate any of the conditions actually on that. Depending on which condition it is, we would get notification of that maybe through a complaint, maybe through a site inspection performed through verifying that these conditions were satisfied. We would notify the proper Code Enforcement officer. We have ones that handle EPA, so some of the things regarding the manure would go to that particular Code Enforcement officer. Other things regarding zoning would go to a different Code Enforcement officer. So, they would initiate that complaint, they would be given time to come into compliance as we do with anyone who's put into violation, and should they not come into compliance, we would proceed with enforcement action. It would likely be through revocation of the Special Use Permit, also court action. That's typically the process. So, we do give them a time to come into compliance, we don't just automatically revoke that.
Chairman Stipan said ok. Amongst us Commissioners, does anyone want to add anything or say anything about this case before we take a vote?
Kimberly Mitchell said I would just say the comments made by Miss Winfrey were, in my mind, appropriate to what's happening here. There is a lot of difficulty in some of these neighborhoods with noise. This applicant is not a part of that. He's not proposing anything that should mirror or mimic that. We have to look at his Case. Those other issues have to be addressed outside of this forum.
Chairman Stipan said he said at his particular venue, his weddings are on Fridays and Saturdays. They don't conflict with church. They don't conflict with church traffic. He also said that his building and construction is sound proofed. So, if the sound's too loud inside, the people inside are complaining.
Kimberly Mitchell said I think we have the information we need to make an informed decision on this Case.
13. Motion To Approve A Special Use Permit For Ancillary Liquor Service In Conjunction With Allowed Agritourism Uses
Motion passed 5-1 with 4 conditions.
RESULT: APPROVED [5 TO 1]
MOVER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner
SECONDER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner
AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Bettenhausen
NAYS: Kiefner
LEFT MEETING: White
14. Motion To Approve Special Use Permit For Rural Events
Motion passed 6-0 with 8 conditions.
RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner
SECONDER: Kimberly Mitchell, Commissioner
AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhausen
LEFT MEETING: White
15. Motion To Approve Special Use Permit For A Landscaping and Lawn Maintenance Business
Motion passed 6-0 with 11 conditions
RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner
SECONDER: Roger Bettenhausen, Commissioner
AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhausen
LEFT MEETING: White
VI. OTHER
VII. EXECUTIVE SESSION
Not needed.
VIII. ANNOUNCEMENTS
Chairman Stipan said Denise, thank you so much for coming up and explaining everything. I know the animosity is high in the crowd but there wasn't much I could do to get across to them. We're just trying to hear a Zoning Case.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
1. Next Meeting will be on January 21, 2020
Janine Farrell said our next meeting will be February 4th. The January 21st meeting will be cancelled.
2. Motion To Adjourn The Meeting
Motion passed 6-0.
RESULT: APPROVED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: John Kiefner, Commissioner
SECONDER: Michael Carruthers, Commissioner
AYES: Carruthers, Mitchell, Stipan, Peterson, Kiefner, Bettenhausen
LEFT MEETING: White
X. Visit www.willcountylanduse.com to view agendas and staff reports
https://willcountyil.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=15&ID=3694&Inline=True
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